French ATC strike
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to quote a previous note
"The strike will coincide with a two-day meeting of EU transport ministers in Brussels and is over the planned liberalisation of Europe's air transport sector.
Air traffic control services would be opened up to competition should the changes come into force."
There are entrenched positions there to protect - thus strikes.
to quote a previous note
"The strike will coincide with a two-day meeting of EU transport ministers in Brussels and is over the planned liberalisation of Europe's air transport sector.
Air traffic control services would be opened up to competition should the changes come into force."
There are entrenched positions there to protect - thus strikes.
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poor ol' french atc getting a bashing here, perhaps a few words in support:
1) I'm not sure who's striking this time, but ususally it's the support technicians/engineers who down tools, not the controllers, and they usually manage to pull the plugs on a few bits of vital kit just before they leave! Nice!
2)The French language thing, which I agree is very dangerous, is something forced upon them by law, not just a whim as it is in Spain/Italy/Greece etc. There is a whole French government department devoted to the protection of the French Language, and this edict comes from them. I believe that Air France pilots objected and even unilaterally tried to speak English to French ATC, but were warned against it by their management! They also dictate, for example, that at least 50% of French broadcast radio music is French Language, which is why nobody listens to it!
3) When you're flogging home after that night TFS, which ATC is it that generally gives you the level you want, and a direct routing to the other side of their FIR?
Yes, French ATC are a pain at times, but no worse than some and better than many IMHO.
In case you think this is one sided, I'd like to point out that their beer is cr@p. Thank you.
1) I'm not sure who's striking this time, but ususally it's the support technicians/engineers who down tools, not the controllers, and they usually manage to pull the plugs on a few bits of vital kit just before they leave! Nice!
2)The French language thing, which I agree is very dangerous, is something forced upon them by law, not just a whim as it is in Spain/Italy/Greece etc. There is a whole French government department devoted to the protection of the French Language, and this edict comes from them. I believe that Air France pilots objected and even unilaterally tried to speak English to French ATC, but were warned against it by their management! They also dictate, for example, that at least 50% of French broadcast radio music is French Language, which is why nobody listens to it!
3) When you're flogging home after that night TFS, which ATC is it that generally gives you the level you want, and a direct routing to the other side of their FIR?
Yes, French ATC are a pain at times, but no worse than some and better than many IMHO.
In case you think this is one sided, I'd like to point out that their beer is cr@p. Thank you.
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Yes, the French go on strike - again !!!
Yet BA still gives them 2 free tickets each every year, even though 'The World's Favourite' still won't give UK ATCO's ID90 !
Maybe that's where we are going wrong ?!?!
Yet BA still gives them 2 free tickets each every year, even though 'The World's Favourite' still won't give UK ATCO's ID90 !
Maybe that's where we are going wrong ?!?!
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RECCEGUY
Completely agree. Good engineering skills and aerospace companies in the big nation.
But launching rockets from their own territory ???? You do not mean by any chance this former little colonialistic piece of jungle in South America ? However, take the chance and send the crappy French ATC into orbit with a bunch of Ariane 5. Let them scare the aliens up there on orbit level 100000 and not our daily operation.
Oh, by the way, the best Carbon Brakes are coming from SEP !Yes it's a french company !
CB
Completely agree. Good engineering skills and aerospace companies in the big nation.
But launching rockets from their own territory ???? You do not mean by any chance this former little colonialistic piece of jungle in South America ? However, take the chance and send the crappy French ATC into orbit with a bunch of Ariane 5. Let them scare the aliens up there on orbit level 100000 and not our daily operation.
Oh, by the way, the best Carbon Brakes are coming from SEP !Yes it's a french company !
CB
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yes, gentlemen - I agree with you all, what could I say more? In my mind they should be fired, all of them from the ATC union - but you know, it's unfortunately a big problem we have in our country, all those "transportation strikes" (railways, metro, buses..and ATC is just part of the big show)
Many irate french people will quote Mrs Thatcher, Mr Reagan or the Aussies in the past for knowing how to deal with an excessive strike - because yes, french people too are suffering from those actions.
Once again, some of the previous comments were a little bit outside the scope of ATC problems.
And military traffic in France? yes, like flight test traffic it's outside the scope of civilian ATC, they hate it and would like to take it over (to create more nuisance with future strikes ?)
Like it or not, that's the way it is - but it's related to history, and also dealing with decent Air force, Fleet Air Arm and Flight Test centres... anybody up to the challenge?
Many irate french people will quote Mrs Thatcher, Mr Reagan or the Aussies in the past for knowing how to deal with an excessive strike - because yes, french people too are suffering from those actions.
Once again, some of the previous comments were a little bit outside the scope of ATC problems.
And military traffic in France? yes, like flight test traffic it's outside the scope of civilian ATC, they hate it and would like to take it over (to create more nuisance with future strikes ?)
Like it or not, that's the way it is - but it's related to history, and also dealing with decent Air force, Fleet Air Arm and Flight Test centres... anybody up to the challenge?
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The official reason is that they are against a common European airspace structure, because that would reduce safety... 
Yeah right !
Really sad people these French ATC controllers.
Yeah right !
Really sad people these French ATC controllers.
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I hear that the reason for the strike is EU plans to eventually privatise the whole of the service in all member-states, which in turn would inevitably lead to "streamlining" operations and lay-offs.
(sorry, no check-speller)
[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: ThinkRate ]
(sorry, no check-speller)
[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: ThinkRate ]
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This is exactly the kind of 'continental'childishness I fought against in the eighties.
Margaret Thatcher say:
Put all Garlic eaters up against the wall.
Give France to the Gurkas and lets get down to business. 
Margaret Thatcher say:
Put all Garlic eaters up against the wall.
Give France to the Gurkas and lets get down to business.
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I find it very hard to understand why a group in our industry would ( could) be so selfish at a time like this, when most airlines are scraping the barrel for every cent,Does anybody know what the hell they want this time?
Pegase Driver
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Oh my God ! here we go again .
I am not going to comment on the comments to say that the old entente cordiale is still not on today..
The discussions so far Looked like a Monthy Python fortress taking...( for those who saw the movie..) .
Some information :
The reason for the strike is the discusions on the " Single sky " initiative from the EU pushed by the commissionner, Miss Loyola de Palacio , a Spanish lady .The presidency of the EU is going to go to Spain on 1.1. 02. They fear that things will move faster by then.
They fear that with the Single Sky plans ,ATC would be open to concurrence and be privatised ( like in the UK) They are against this and strike to support their Minister ( a communist ) who is opoosed to ATC privatisation.
.
To make things a bit more comnplicated, in France there are at leat 5 Unions representing the controllers. The main union (54% controllers vote for it but only 17% pay their dues, another French particularity ) SNCTA is not on strike, the 4 others are.
SNCTA said they support the idea but think this is not the moment to strike. ( I could agree wih that !)
Anyway it stops tomorrow morning.
Now where did I put this bottle of Medoc?....
I am not going to comment on the comments to say that the old entente cordiale is still not on today..
The discussions so far Looked like a Monthy Python fortress taking...( for those who saw the movie..) .
Some information :
The reason for the strike is the discusions on the " Single sky " initiative from the EU pushed by the commissionner, Miss Loyola de Palacio , a Spanish lady .The presidency of the EU is going to go to Spain on 1.1. 02. They fear that things will move faster by then.
They fear that with the Single Sky plans ,ATC would be open to concurrence and be privatised ( like in the UK) They are against this and strike to support their Minister ( a communist ) who is opoosed to ATC privatisation.
.
To make things a bit more comnplicated, in France there are at leat 5 Unions representing the controllers. The main union (54% controllers vote for it but only 17% pay their dues, another French particularity ) SNCTA is not on strike, the 4 others are.
SNCTA said they support the idea but think this is not the moment to strike. ( I could agree wih that !)
Anyway it stops tomorrow morning.
Now where did I put this bottle of Medoc?....
Thread Starter
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BBC:
Before long pax will find travelling by other means more attractive than flying and ultimately this will also mean that we will need less controllers. Now, if that won`t be a reason for another big strike.
Aware that the strike was coming, most passengers took the decision to travel by other means, or at other times, rather than wait in departure halls.
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They are not only protecting THEIR interests, but also OUR interests!
Imagine a single PRIVATISED EU ATC!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!
You just have to look at how well (dis)organized the British Railways are after less then 10 years of private management!
Not to forget the hundreds of dead we have seen over the last few years...
No wonder the Labour government in London has to renationalize it! (Although they call it differently now; 3rd way vocabulary that is of course)
Margaret Thatcher,
do I see that correctly?
do you actually say you are living in Europe? I feel that should say at least UK, or preferably even USA...
Imagine a single PRIVATISED EU ATC!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!
You just have to look at how well (dis)organized the British Railways are after less then 10 years of private management!
Not to forget the hundreds of dead we have seen over the last few years...
No wonder the Labour government in London has to renationalize it! (Although they call it differently now; 3rd way vocabulary that is of course
) Margaret Thatcher,
do I see that correctly?
do you actually say you are living in Europe?
I feel that should say at least UK, or preferably even USA...
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Sure tolipanebas
Letīs take Sabena as an example of what governments pooring billions into inefficient semi privatized outfits can lead to....
Maybe youīre right that privatization is not the answer BUT, someting has to be done to this incredibly inefficient European airspace structure.
Why donīt these bloody Eurocrats copy and paste the FAR-AIM and rename it JAR-AIM ?
It would save a lot of time and would make a lot more people happy.
The only people left crying would be those working for inefficient semi govenmental institutions, like French AT controllers.
Imagine a single PRIVATISED EU ATC!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!
Maybe youīre right that privatization is not the answer BUT, someting has to be done to this incredibly inefficient European airspace structure.
Why donīt these bloody Eurocrats copy and paste the FAR-AIM and rename it JAR-AIM ?
It would save a lot of time and would make a lot more people happy.
The only people left crying would be those working for inefficient semi govenmental institutions, like French AT controllers.