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Flash Airlines B737 Crash in Egypt

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Flash Airlines B737 Crash in Egypt

Old 3rd Jan 2004, 17:29
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Not an accident, but rather "very obviously a major malfunction", as NASA would say.

A dreadful tragedy for all concerned, whatever the euphemism.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 18:02
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BBC now confirms 148 on board and no survivours,
this is the most fatalities in the history for the B737.

There were 135 passengers and 13 crew members on board the flight which was on its way to Cairo for a stopover and crew change before heading on to Paris, Charles de Gaulle airport.

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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 18:23
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Indeed...semantics were unnecessary.

Sincerest condolences to all the families and loved ones.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 19:10
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Time to convene the Prune Air Acident Investigation Board. Rudder, or bomb?
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 19:18
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I can think of several possible reasons for this drama. Let us for now focus on the human tragedy and concequences for all involved.
Hopefully, the Egyptian CAA will invite the French DGAC to support them in the accident investigation.
Anyway, this is another blow to the Egyptian Civil Aviation scene.
My sincere sympathies.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 19:22
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I notice that some reports are saying there were 13 crew on board, would it be that many on a 733 ?
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 19:46
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First page of their site already has a gross inconsistence about man. date, see behind S/N's of both aircraft and text.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 19:59
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7 positioning crew to CAI were also onboard, hence the 13 crew members.
It seems that the plane has crashed in 1000m deep water, I guess it will be quite a task of retrieving the CVR/FDR
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 21:57
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BBC now reporting:

"The plane had a problem at take-off and then tried to turn around and it was at that moment that it apparently crashed off the coast," junior French transport minister Dominique Bussereau told reporters at Charles de Gaulle airport.

Does anyone know why the flight was planned to land in Cairo before onward sector to Paris? Seems too short for a tech stop and there were no seats left to be filled.

Take off engine failure over the sea at night. Not nice if true.

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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 22:08
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"In a statement, the county's aviation ministry said "technical failures" were the reason for the tragedy."

How can they be so sure in such a short time about the causes of this accident?
I understand that the Egyptian Government will try all possible to reassure the tourism indutry as Sharm El Sheik is a very popular destination especially from Europe, but it seems extremely early to rule out terrorism unless they know something we do not know yet.

I am only a bit sceptic at this stage and terrorism should not be ruled out for the time being.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 23:11
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maybe it was Capt. Battoutti (co-joe on the ill fated egyptair 767) ?? they blamed him once, hell these days they'll blame it on him as well.
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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 23:15
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My condolences to all the victims and the loved ones who got the
bad news at CDG.
I left Egypt in Nov 1997, after the big shooting in Luxor, with a
bad taste I hear the news. It is the mentality of the local officials
there to deny first until evidence is there and proves the truth.
I cannot recall a failure in the B737 what causes such a big
problem that the crew cannot handle. A failure of both engines
short after takeoff, loosing the stabilizer, part of the wing falls
appart, those are excluded. But dont forget the B737 is a very
reliable aircraft..... so wait and see what the FDR and the CVR
having as a secret to tell us. The French authorities offered a lot
of assistance to discover the real cause. The Grand Nation does
not hide if theire citizens where victims of a terrorist attack, if it
was one. Fact is 135 passenger and 13 crew got killed, let us
know why!.

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Old 3rd Jan 2004, 23:16
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Time is GMT + 8 hours
Posted: 03 January 2004 2050 hrs

Egypt rules out explosion as cause of plane crash, blames technical failure

CAIRO : The Egyptian civil aviation ministry said a "technical failure" appears to have caused a plane with 148 people aboard to crash into the Red Sea on Saturday, ruling out an explosion.

"There was no explosion aboard the plane before it crashed into the sea," ministry engineer Faisal al-Shennawi told AFP.

"The first results of the investigation indicate the crash was caused by a technical failure," he said, adding that the ministry would soon publish a statement about the incident.

The plane was carrying 135 French tourists and 13 Egyptian crew members when it crashed shortly after take-off from the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, according to the airline.

Civil Aviation Minister Ahmed Shafik was headed to the crash site with senior aides and technical experts to continue the investigation, another ministry official said.

"The control towers of Cairo and Sharm el-Sheikh airports received no distress call from the pilot before the crash," a Cairo airport official said.

Debris was found around seven kilometres south of the airport at Sharm el-Sheikh, he added.

Flash Airlines, the company that operated the plane, said it will arrange for a special flight to Sharm el-Sheikh carrying relatives of the Egyptians who died as well as aviation and technical officials.

The Boeing 737-300 jet was one of two operated by Egyptian charter carrier Flash Airlines, both manufactured in 1993, according to the company's website.

The airline was [founded] six years ago by Egyptian and Italian businessmen, a company official said. - AFP

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Old 4th Jan 2004, 00:44
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My condolences to people affected by this. 2004 is getting off to a bad start.

Taking account of what information has been released already, what sort of mechanical faliure could happen to cause an aircraft to turn around and head back to the departure airport for an emergency landing, and then crashing short?

The only thing that springs to mind is an engine explosion, leading to severed lines/control surface/wing damage, or fire, leading to the same thing. It would have to be one hell of a fire to only last two minutes airborne. I don't think this is a repeat of the rudder incident, as not only was that fixed, but from my understanding it leads to a pretty much instantaneous loss of control, which I don't think is what happened here.

This of course, is just my opinion.

Are there any eyewitness reports? From my understanding the area around the crash site is a busy tourist resort.

Whatever the cause, lets hope that the French officials are invited to participate in the investigation, I think it would only be fair considering the loss of French families.
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Old 4th Jan 2004, 01:34
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"There was no explosion aboard the plane before it crashed into the sea," ministry engineer Faisal al-Shennawi told AFP.

There weren't any on 9/11 either.
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Old 4th Jan 2004, 02:51
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Red face Egyptian Aircraft Down

It's no wonder the BBC come in for so much flak: To quote the pretty young thing reading this morning's BBC TV news: "An Egyptian airliner carrying 135 French holidaymakers and 13 crew is reported to have crashed in the sea.... if any of you are concerned about Prime MInister Tony Blair who is on holiday in the area....... a statement from Number 10 etc etc "

Let's see now, would he have been the pilot-handling, the purser or the gent in 22A wearing a necklace of onions? Oh, for God's sake! bm
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Old 4th Jan 2004, 02:57
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Well, he might have been out swimming and had it land on top of him...?
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Old 4th Jan 2004, 02:59
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Was it daylight or darkness? Over the sea in the dark best bet would be spacial disorientation leading to hitting the water (lots of airliners lost that way).

Engine explosion etc would probably generate a mayday call, but not for certain. More likely with headsets than handmikes (depending on airline procedure and regulation) to get a distress call off.

Rudder hard over is unlikely to bring the aircraft down on takeoff because the aircraft will be flying faster than crossover speed, so the ailerons can overpower it.

Pitot static problems might do it as well...

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Old 4th Jan 2004, 03:28
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On FR2 French tv evening news:

A local hotellier Richard Bonneville, whose hotel is situated about 10-12km from the crash area, related that between 4.45 and 5am," they heard a very loud explosion which shook all the windows". It was only later at about 7am that they heard that there had been an air crash.
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Old 4th Jan 2004, 03:49
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Sincere condoleances to the famillies to all those on board.

In terms of French nationals killed this is the worst air disater for France since the 1960s.
As to the " speculators " here , please wait a bit, you look like journalists expecting sensational news. For what we know so far , if indeed it is correct, it could be many things , even something very simple, like multiple bird stike on both engines for instance....
The CVR/FDR are reported to be laying 3000 ft below SL and a french company specialized in deep sea ops will be sent to the site to recover them. So could we wait a bit before jumping to bombs or rudders conclusions ?
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