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Tired budget jet pilots 'endanger passengers' - The Times

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Tired budget jet pilots 'endanger passengers' - The Times

Old 16th Jul 2004, 19:15
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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I have not read the article in Skypointer, but would hope that the Easy BALPA Council would get a mention!
In the last few years we have gone from the shambles of Carmen and totally chaotic random monthly rosters published at random days of the month to the present fixed roster pattern with days off known a year in advance.
We have also seen the company forced to publish rosters on a set day each month and disruption payments made to pilots when the company have failed to do this or when roster stability has dropped below set levels.
The latest progression is the trial of 5 and 2, 5 and 4, another step in the right direction.
To achieve the above takes good will from both sides but any pilot who thinks this would have happened without BALPA and particularly the Rostering Sub Committee is not giving credit where it's due.
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Old 17th Jul 2004, 05:56
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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I agree, Airbrake.

Scientific research into roster fatigue is all very well. However, it is the guys flying the line who actually know how to solve the problems.

Good dialogue between Management and Union is the best solution for a safer and better lifestyle.

In an ideal world you might put an experienced pilot in the crewing department. He / she would easily spot the 'roster from hell'.

I coubt the CAA would ever endorse such a politically contentious idea though.
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Old 17th Jul 2004, 20:03
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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unfortunately, when people talk about saftey, the buck stops with the pilot community, managers gives it lip service against profit, crewing do as they are told, they are only doing their jobs to the rules they have been given, it is only the pilots that ultimately need to stick together since we are the only ones directly responsible for the 200 or so 'bums' we carry.
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Old 18th Jul 2004, 14:36
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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i would like to think that your ground engineers,
are also responsible for the 200 bums on seats, plus yours.
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Old 18th Jul 2004, 18:47
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the low cost airlines are exploiting CAP 371. I worked for a large low cost airline for two years too long! I flew with pilots that were definately suffering from fatigue and on three accounts in one year, when I was pilot non flying, Mr. Pilot flying was sleeping.
Things quite clearly have to change. The rules were written a long time ago and do not cater for low cost airlines.
With low cost airlines, discretion should not be allowed as it is quite clearly used too much. The airline that I was working for used to roster us up to 10 mins of going into discretion with very short turn arounds. I remember in one month, there were 496 reports of discretion in one month!!!
I decided to leave the airline after falling asleep at the wheel and bumping another car on my way home after my sixth day working. On the preceeding days I had three early reports 4.40,4.20 4.45 and three lates 5.10,5.10, all 4 sector days. It takes the biscuit and there are better jobs around!!
I also decided to write to my MP. I asked him how come a long distance lorry driver can only drive for 4 hours and then must legally have 40 mins off. When an airline pilot, moving in excess of 600 per day was allowed to fly for the total flight duty period dependant upon report time and have no break but 20 min turn around times. He referred my letter to the DT who could not reply!! That says it all.
Sorry to go on but airlines are making the skies dangerous.
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Old 18th Jul 2004, 19:03
  #206 (permalink)  
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Cool

This problem will continue sadly until there is a major accident that is put down to fatigue! With the way Easy and Ryanair work their crews it sadly can only be a matter of time! Hope to god I am wrong!
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Old 19th Jul 2004, 08:34
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Yarpy,

The conclusion in the IPA article is, in my honest opinion, utter rubbish, and brings the IPA into disrepute for publishing it...
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Old 19th Jul 2004, 08:44
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Posted by Constant Speed DU:
I also decided to write to my MP. I asked him how come a long distance lorry driver can only drive for 4 hours and then must legally have 40 mins off. When an airline pilot, moving in excess of 600 per day was allowed to fly for the total flight duty period dependant upon report time and have no break but 20 min turn around times.
Excellent point!
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Old 20th Jul 2004, 07:59
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Right let me get this straight.

Pilots with certain companies are being worked to the limit of CAP381.

Some, many, most(?) are complaining of fatigue.

Pilots have the responsibility to declare themsleves fit to fly.

SO

If you are "professional", what the dickens are you guys doing flying when fatigued? You are irresponsible and bringing our industry into disrepute.

But then of course you are working for a bunch of bullies and the only professionals they employ are lawyers and accountants. Pilots are the blue collar workers and there are two seats for them at the front of each aircraft that need filling.

If you are fatigued, how about an anonymous report to the Health and Safety department at your company? What about talking to Balpa? What about Chirp? Why not get another job? Ultimately declare yourself unfit to fly - if they sack you, sue them. There are many courses of action and if this problem is as wide spread as is made out, then if everyone complained, companies would have to listen.

One thing is for certain, if you have an incident and it was decided that you should have declared yourself unfit to fly, then the poo is going to slide your way. And I wonder how much help Balpa would be?
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Old 25th Oct 2004, 12:01
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Tired Pilots "Endanger Passengers"

Have just come accross this article from the Times last year. Anyone know if anything was done about it by the so-called "Authority"?

What excessive duty hours are some of these guys on if they "endanger passengers"? I thought we all worked to roughly the same rules, or are EZY on a different CAP 371?

The link is http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...937868,00.html[/url][/URL]
Thrush is offline  

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