Better find problem and rectify now rather than later

It often happen to ground a prototype to upgrade it or to add new equipment, but it’s usually 1 to 2 weeks. Three months is huge!!
They may have a problem that impacts flight safety, Otherwise they would try to keep aircraft in flight to move forward the certification.
Gear box issue can fit with this the 3 months, but that would be a bad news for Kopter.

I confirm: No flight recorded for either HB-ZXD and HB-ZXE since Oct 4. I just checked on flight radar.

I don t know if there is a technical issue but the mood at Kopter is not good at all, especially since the arrival of the new CFO.

That looks big. Gear box design is a tricky topic.
What will be the impact on the entry into service? 3 more months delay? More?

I don't know the details of the gearbox problems, except Bitmonx post, however, what I can tell you from my experience as an engineer for such gear box issue:

• If it's not a major problem, Leonardo may already know how to fix it. So, in 6 months, Leo could build a fixed MGB. Then, with another 6 months, they could do all the testing and go back to the initial certification plan. ==> AW09 certification could be around mid-2026.
• If it's a complex problem, it may take 6 months to a year to define the solution, then as the MGB parts take a long time to produce, it may take a year to build, test and integrate the new gearbox. ==> Best case scenario for this option: Certification mid-2027 or 2028.

Let's wait for AW09 update at Verticon. But despite the low level of information available, my guess is option 2. In option 1, the prototypes could have continued to fly. The very abrupt end of the flight tests of the two prototypes, let me think that Leo is unfortunately facing option 2.

So to answer your question laurenson: don't expect AW09 certification before 2027.

My first thought: 2027! you are too harsh Marlowki!! But I agree with your arguments. And from what I have seen in our industries, even 2 years to fix a gear box issues and certify a helicopter seems very challenging.

They can ask for help from Airbus. They have experience in managing gearbox crises. :E

I did some archeology in flight radar and I have been really surprised.

• AW09 PS5, HB-ZXF has only performed 1.5 hours for test since June 2024.
• AW09 PS4, HB-ZXD performed around 10 hours in September and October before being grounded.

Are you saying that test aircraft's always appear on flight radar 24 ?
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I think if the AC is registered and you have the upgrade to a Gold (lookup 1 year history), or Business (lookup 3 year history) subscription.
Does it capture all test flights? I assume as long as ADS-B is turned on, that remains a question.

Another source shows the following number of flights and duration - looking at June onwards for each prototype

HB-ZXD
Jun> 09 flights, 5h06m
Jul> 13 flights, 6h57m
Aug> 4 flights, 2h14m
Sep> 20 flights, 7h02m
Oct> 7 flights, 2h55m
Nov> nil
Dec nil

HB-ZXF
Jun> 8 flights, 4h21m
Jul> 4 flights, 1h03m
Aug> nil
Sep> 5 flights, 2h00m
Oct> nil
Nov> nil
Dec> nil

Thanks Marloki, indeed even 2027 seems challenging if the PS5, which is supposed to be serial aircraft representative, only performed 3 hours in 7 months. That’s clearly not a certification flight rate.

But are you sure that flight radar data is reliable?

Yes, 3 hours since end of June for HB-ZXF. I confirmed. (I made a computation mistake in my previous post)

Laurenson, Flight Radar data is usually pretty accurate for test aircraft. I follow test aircraft for years and my count is always really close to companies’ announcements.

I don’t want to speculate on the reasons for the 09 grounding and certification date, so let’s wait for HAI. Leonardo would do a program update.

Thanks to heliHub :ok:, we now know a little more :

HeliHub.com : Leonardo AW09 test flying pause - the reasons - HeliHub.com
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I don t buy Leonardo’s explanation: supplier quality issues
Gear boxes are key safety parts. So before assemble it, company usually do exhaustive quality tests.. If you find conformity issues, flight tests are just not possible.
I agree with Bitmonx, it really looks like a design issue discovered during a certification trial.

The Heli Hub article says: "a manufacturing non-conformity” with a supplier part in the transmission system.

Taken broadly that could include a design flaw given design is part of a manufacturing process. But I agree they are being vague.

Unlike the others manufacturers having technical issues ! ;)
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PS5 should be flying second half of March and then PS4 a little bit after that.

As Ned said : :ok:

AW09 flight tests resume following five-month pause to resolve supplier issue | News | Flight Global

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