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-   -   AW139 incident - Houma (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/649063-aw139-incident-houma.html)

FH1100 Pilot 25th September 2024 14:01

Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."

Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.

212man 25th September 2024 15:22


Originally Posted by FH1100 Pilot (Post 11740685)
Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."

Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.

Their descent was from 4500 ft and the fire started about 60 seconds after the first smell. They were still at 3000 ft when they got the uncontrolled climb.
https://data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=105994

albatross 25th September 2024 15:57

Constructing the darn collective control tube of carbon fibre is perhaps not the best choice.
However what would have happened if the tube was constructed of aluminium…massive short, gen1, Gen 2 CB pop?
Of course the whole thing could have been avoided with proper quality control during the construction process.

Just curious…am. I correct in thinking that the collective was no longer moving the swash plate or having any effect whatsoever on power at all. The collective position was caused by twisting of the burnt carbon fibre control rod. There was no way for the crew to know that, hence the strenuous efforts to lower it.


[email protected] 25th September 2024 17:20


Originally Posted by FH1100 Pilot (Post 11740685)
Any fire in any aircraft in flight is a serious issue. We often say, "Where there's smoke, there's fire." But the corollary, "Where there's no smoke, there's no fire," is not true. Just because there's no smoke doesn't mean something is not burning. The crew mentioned that they noticed a "burning plastic" smell throughout the helicopter. I know, I know, I know, it's easy to second-guess the actions of a flight crew after the fact. I know. But...here we go...by the crew's own description, there was "a few minutes" between the smell of "burning plastic," and the cockpit suddenly filled with smoke. Hmm, during those "few minutes" after they first smelled the burning plastic (which is most assuredly not normal), imagine if just one of those boys had paused and thought for a moment and said to himself, "Wait a minute...what was that thing ol' Matty Zuccaro used to say...something...something about...oh yeah! LAND THE DAMN HELICOPTER!" Maybe if they had done that when they first smelled something BURNING, they would not have needed to endure the honor of receiving an award from HAI. After the event...you know, when the smoke cleared (sorry for the bad pun), one of the pilots was asked about what he wanted people to take away from this event? He replied, "Keep flying. Keep talking..." Hey bubba, how's about "keep landing?" Because you know...and I mean, YOU KNOW that to this day those two guys are privately saying to themselves (but perhaps not even to each other), "We should have put that goddam thing down when we first smelled the burning plastic. We almost friggin' died."

Matty Z is probably rolling over in his grave.

Yes, they forgot the 20/20 hindsight section in the QRH...............................:ugh:....

212man 25th September 2024 17:50


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11740799)
Yes, they forgot the 20/20 hindsight section in the QRH...............................:ugh:....

Don't we all! Well, not FH1100 of course


megan 26th September 2024 01:35

Not seen video of the landing before, longer stroke oleos and they would have been home and hosed. :p


gulliBell 26th September 2024 03:18


Originally Posted by megan (Post 11740960)
Not seen video of the landing before, longer stroke oleos and they would have been home and hosed. :p

Do you think a 76 would have come out better in this situation with its beefy MLG?

twinstar_ca 26th September 2024 16:39


Originally Posted by gulliBell (Post 11740985)
Do you think a 76 would have come out better in this situation with its beefy MLG?

Hard to say but never count out an S76 since Helijet took a lightning strike to the tail and shed 2 blades... thank god they were opposing blades!!!! (sorry for the drift)..:uhoh:

megan 27th September 2024 01:14

gulli, there's always a limit to everything, but a 76 will survive undamaged a landing that causes the inertia reels to lock and the ELT to begin transmitting.

My longer stroke oleo comment was merely reference to the dissipation of energy, have recently been reading of the taming of a carrier based aircraft and its propensity to bounce on landing causing grave issues. Alteration of shock strut air pressure, metering valve, stroke and tyre pressure all get a mention.


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