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I often wonder whether 2 engines have any real tangible benefit in the helicopter world.
For prolonged transits over 'hostile' terrain I can see the rationale - which was originally airline's reasons for having extra engines - but for non-complex operations, there must be statistics that suggest that B206's have done a lot better in some areas ... |
Originally Posted by DeltaNg
(Post 10452121)
I often wonder whether 2 engines have any real tangible benefit in the helicopter world.
For prolonged transits over 'hostile' terrain I can see the rationale - which was originally airline's reasons for having extra engines - but for non-complex operations, there must be statistics that suggest that B206's have done a lot better in some areas ... And even nowadays I d rather have a spare engine operating over congested areas, hovering prolonged times, day and night. If a donk fails on you it’s just more relaxing having another one keeping you in the air instead of the need to react instantaneously to recover the Nr, getting speed, deciding where to autorotate to (especially at night with NVG). How many engine failures had I? One sputtering engine allowing limited power only, on a Bell206 where parts of the compressor housing went through the engine , several times when I tried to increase power - with passengers on board, One engine to shut down on a Bo105 One engine to shut down on a BK117 The occurrences on the twins were much less stressful, nearly „non events“, except for the paperwork involved... So ne question for me, what I prefer.... |
Originally Posted by Flying Bull
(Post 10452169)
If a donk fails on you it’s just more relaxing having another one keeping you in the air instead of the need to react instantaneously to recover the Nr, getting speed, deciding where to autorotate to (especially at night with NVG). |
OR the imaginary world where engine redundancy is an imagined magic cure? |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 10452271)
You're going to need to justify that comment given the fact that 75.9% of the accidents caused by system failures are as a result of engine failures.
It DOES NOT concur with the EASA data analysis, which gives about 10% of the 20% that are system failures. Are you including engine accidents for twins there? |
Originally Posted by DrinkGirls
(Post 10442802)
anchorhold The relatives DO need closure. This isn’t endless inquiries, this is THE inquiry. The AAIB report will be part of it. An inquest doesn’t just look at why the helicopter crashed. It looks at post crash responses, lessons to be learned and more importantly, how EACH and every victim died. It looks at many many things other than the accident report. In other words, it’s vital. So, apology accepted. Now, why don’t we all listen to what is said over the next 6 months, see if we can learn anything new about what happened and let the families have the inquest that they deserve. It’s not all about compensation you know......... DV |
Looks like the investigating officers have been asking the right questions. Hopefully the armchair investigators who had all the answers on Pprune will now realise there are many more issues that need to be addressed before we character assassinate Dave. The conclusion may or may not agree with the original board, however he will be able to rest in peace, knowing that he has been given a more thorough hearing. Everyone involved deserves that. |
Originally Posted by DrinkGirls
(Post 10456611)
Looks like the investigating officers have been asking the right questions. ,,,, |
Nice, encompassing questionaire, but there is one important question missing:
4.16 whether the ability to carry out autorotation, flare recovery and landing was compromised by Helicopter Police of Scotland (sp?) through not providing sufficient opportunities for their pilots to practice real world EOLs in EC135 types, by day and night. Now, lets see virtual hands from those EC135 drivers on pprune, that actually did practice real EOL in an 135! And how many of you did practice them at night, w/o rad-alt? anyone at all? |
Originally Posted by Reely340
(Post 10457074)
Now, lets see virtual hands from those EC135 drivers on pprune, that actually did practice real EOL in an 135! And how many of you did practice them at night, w/o rad-alt? anyone at all? But it would enhance the chance to get things right- i.e. switching the EmerShedBus early with the first problems arising, (low fuel warning i.e.), if pilots had a go in a simulator once or twice a year.... |
Simulator time. Training budget.
Originally Posted by Flying Bull
(Post 10457115)
No need to practice them for real. But it would enhance the chance to get things right- i.e. switching the EmerShedBus early with the first problems arising, (low fuel warning i.e.), if pilots had a go in a simulator once or twice a year.... |
I was flamed for suggesting this earlier, but as it's a rumour site, I'll try again...
Has there been any investigation into the personal relationships between the souls on board? All the points to be covered reflect technical issues - either physical systems, training, compliance, procedural, etc. but what about emotional factors? It wouldn't be the first time an aircraft was deliberately crashed... |
I fly a 135 most night shifts. I still don't understand why they ran out of fuel. There are so many warnings, notwithstanding basic airmanship that it makes no sense at all. Mission lock possibly coupled with poor CRM is the only conclusion that I can come up with.
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toptobottom,
+1 About the only thing that is plausible. |
toptobottom, RVDT, While personal relationships and personal issues may be relevant, they are unlikely to be considered outside of professional CRM issues aboard the aircraft. If there were known issues prior to the flight, management will be heavily censured and criticised for not doing anything about it. Close or familial relationships are generally forbidden between officers serving together, although it is not unknown for husband and wife to serve at the same station and/or work together in the same vehicle. The problem is that allegations of collusion will be levelled if an account of events by such officers is disputed. If such matters are considered, it is likely that that part of the FAI will be heard behind closed doors and the conclusions omitted from the final report unless they point directly to being a primary cause of this incident. |
Evil Twin. Luckily for us your narrow minded view is not shared by all |
Evil Twin and RVDT - while I get this is a rumour forum and bearing in mind I did not know the Pilot I am struggling to understand how you can possibly come up with that hypothesis. |
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Originally Posted by jayteeto
(Post 10459137)
Evil Twin. Luckily for us your narrow minded view is not shared by all |
Evil, the available/released facts would seem to support your statement. However there may be facts as yet undiscovered. Rumsfords Unknown knowns or whatever!
You should realise that the closer people on this thread were to the PIC and/or the type of operation, the harder it is for them to accept the kind of statement you made in post #83. Logic would dictate the story is most likely more complicated than that. I would be mindful of peoples sense of decency and compassion. In particular the Hill of Hindsight is no place to grandstand unless you are of course perfect and without potential fault. For example, despite many years of experience in several different operating environments, I never really digested the difference between thermistor/capacitance detectors and the vital role they play in the indicating, caution and warning systems until this accident brought them to light. I suspect the PIC was similarly indisposed but that is just an opinion. |
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