As a certain Redneck Comedian tells us......"Here''s your Sign!".

All of those youngsters I knew that left Helicopters for fixed wing are all happy, better paid, better job security, and better perks.

Most were approaching their peak level progression shy of entering management and had suffered the usual helicopter world lifestyle long enough to see a better way of life than what loomed.

Make your own choice but do so after some very careful consideration of ALL of the various factors and influences that apply to each route....helicopters or fixed wing.

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Of course I mean MCC-IR, my bad. Cheers for the heads up, will get in touch with Babcock & Starspeed, thanks.

Nope, you're still saying MCC-IR for some reason...

I don't know what doesn't seem right to you about that, but what muermel is specifying is perfectly right - an MCC course is either VFR only or includes MCC training under IFR conditions.

Nothing at all... I was just commenting on the bizarre conversation:

Blah blah... MCC/IR
Do you mean MCC?
Of course I meant MCC/IR, my bad...

MCC/IR is an unusual term. As likely more people have walked on the moon than done a MCC/VFR - the course is generally referred to simply as MCC.

I've had a browse through the pinned thread but I'm pretty sure this might be a bit of a novel question.
I'm leaving the RAF(multi-engine) after 6 years and an unfortunate lack of wings, and on closer inspection I've found that I am far more motivated by civil rotary work than fixed wing! I have a couple applications in for sponsored training (one FW and one RW with Bristow) but in the event that I am unsuccessful, I'm looking to try and figure out if it might not be more cost effective or valuable to do my RW training in Canada and convert a TCCA CPL (H) into a CAA ATPL(H) at all?
The regulatory changes seem to have complicated matters enormously, as the TCCA to EASA route is far better documented and supported. I would even be open to TCCA to EASA to CAA if it would represent a huge value-add in terms of employability!
My end goal would very much be SAR/HEMS/Police if at all possible, UK preferred but frankly no ties to staying if the pay and opportunities are better in Canada/NZ/AUS/US too!
Or, is the RW world sufficiently hard up that if I can't get a sponsored place and guarantee of a job, that paying for my FW licences and crossing over if the opportunity arises is the better plan?

Cannot resist rolling this on...he actually said MMC the first time, hence my question. In the fixed wing world they is only "MCC" but in the world of helicopters there is such a thing as an ATPL/VFR so the distinction VFR vs IFR makes sense for the MCC.

So the military credits (CAP2254) are what will save you money. Unfortunately as you probably already know, your credits are severely limited by your lack of wings - you are not a QMP(A) and so do not get any ATPL or CPL(A) credits. But you do get credit for a PPL(A). My advice would be to start there in the UK and get that as a firm line in the sand. Then you can start on whatever journey you choose. Your experience on multi-engine fixed wing will doubtless be helpful in getting you along the fixed wing commercial licence route. You need to get the Class 1 and do the suite of ATPL exams. There is more opportunity for work in the fixed wing world and efficiency wise it is the most sensible option. You could be employable by the time you've done you leaving routine.

Now if you want to go rotary, you have a much bigger outlay ahead of you. If you have the cash, you could go the integrated route with Helicentre but that's a big wedge of debt in one go (and there are mixed reviews of their training). Alternatively you could go modular but remember you are going to have to work through the whole PPL, hours building, CPL, IR route which is vastly more expensive than the equivalent fixed wing route (particularly given you can short cut the PPL and hours building). Then you are still a low hours rotary pilot - rigs would then be the obviously route to get the hours to get an ATPL.

Third option is a hybrid. Do your fixed wing stuff, fly for an airline for a few years. You can then bridge sideways to helicopters later. Only 5 exams, shorter CPL and IR modular courses and lots of relevant multi-crew experience in your CV. You would also have a steady income to pay for the flying training.

I think the other states of licencing are red-herrings until you have a magic ATPL of some type. The credit to hop between ICAO CPL's is poor compared to having an ATPL to convert. Each time you jump its all the exams again. And if you don't have an ATPL(A), its an IR test for each jump. No thanks.

So my plan would be to get my UK Class 1 medical (because refusal disappoints) get started with your UK ATPL exams (aeroplane), speak to UKFlying.com about credits and get your hands on a CPL(A)/IR with ATPL credit. Join an airline, get some hours, then decide where next.

HEMS/Police is awesome but unless you want to sit as a co-pilot for a looooong time you needs hours somewhere else (airlines/offshore/instructing).

Your best bet for rotary is the US and the FAA licence. Some schools offered a J1 visa which allowed you to instruct after your initial training for up to two years, this is a great way to build experience and hours in your logbook. You'd need to research to see if this is still the case, I'm sure it is though. After a couple of years instructing and 1000 hours in your logbook convert your qualifications to the CAA if you still want to work in the UK.

Hi all

I haven't done my MCC yet (yes the MCC IR) as I finished the IR-H later than planned. Is anybody looking for a SIM buddy for the MCC in the next 2-3 months and has a course already booked/ reserved? If not, HeliCentre NL could offer a course in November 6th - 15th if somebody is interested.

Bye

Question regarding unlocking of the ATPL(H) and exams
 

Hi All,

I'm not sure if this is the correct place to be posting this or whether it deserves its own thread. I have had a quick look to see if this question has already been answered elsewhere but as far as I'm aware there's no relevant topic so apologies in advance if this is not the place to post this, any admin feel free to delete this and I will post it elsewhere! Something an FI said/implied the other day made me question what I'm about to ask but I haven't gotten the chance to clarify the following yet so I thought I'd ask here.

My question without the relevant backstory is as follows (but the backstory may help anyone understand why I am asking this: to "unlock" your ATPL(H) do have to meet the practical flight requirements within a 7 year period otherwise do the ATPL(H) theory exams lapse and you have to do them all over again?
Question number 2: will not "unlocking" the ATPL(H) significantly reduce my career prospects further down the road?

I'm a relatively low hour CPL(H) holder with all the ATPL(H) exams with IR theory and will (hopefully!) very soon have the ME/IR completed. I'm looking into potential careers and have naturally got a lot of differing opinions on the best way to get to where I want to go (ideally HEMS/NPAS/Onshore work).

I'm aware that you have to have completed the IR skills test within 3 years of having finished your last ATPL theory exam and the IR has to be revalidated within 7 years before you have to do the ME/IR all over again.

So my question is: to "unlock" your ATPL(H) do have to meet the practical flight requirements within a 7 year period otherwise do the ATPL(H) theory exams lapse and you have to do them all over again?
Question number 2: will not "unlocking" the ATPL(H) significantly reduce/harm my career prospects further down the road?

My concern that is if I leave it too long to meet the requirements I will have to do the theory exams all over again as can happen with the exams required before doing an IR if you go beyond the 3 year period stated by the CAA. This will have a big impact on what job I decide to take as I can see offshore (where I have zero interest!) maybe a necessary pain if it means unlocking the ATPL sooner and saving myself the pain of having future exams, once was quite enough! Alternatively, and my preferred route would be, remaining onshore and gaining "relevant experience" (even if that is single engine) rather than trying to rack up as many hours as possible offshore so that I have a better chance of getting a job I really want later on.

So don't worry about the ATPL exams. For the purpose of issuing an ATPL you only need to maintain a type rating on any helicopter to keep them valid (this is different to fixed wing). The IR part is as you have already said - you need to do your IR within 3 years and then you have 7 years after holding a valid IR to redo some of the exams (just the IR ones). So don't sweat it. Do your ME/IR then get a job (co-pilots HEMS perhaps - although very bad for hours building).

As for having an ATPL making a difference for jobs - the answer is it depends. For any single pilot onshore job it makes no difference. For an onshore co-pilot job it makes no difference. For an onshore multipilot onshore job you need one. But you also need over a 1000 hrs so you won't be there for a while. You also likely need to pass a command course Basically don't worry about it at the moment.

For Police and HEMS you need hours (it should be you need experience but that's not actually how it is). You need to find a role to get you those hours (instructing, charter, offshore). You will naturally keep your IR and ATPL theory credit ticking over in most jobs. Note you don't need an IR for the police so actually you could just do instructing then go police when you have the hours - not a recommended route though.

So, focus on your ME/IR, consider what you want to do (and enjoy) then start talking to people who can help you get there .

And don't write off offshore. They are recruiting dedicated people pre CPLIR completion at the moment. That's a huge opportunity.

You’ve mentioned that you want to get into HEMS/Police etc and that’s a commendable route. But I think you’ve already hit the nail on the head with regard to offshore experience.

As boring as offshore is it has plenty of benefits. You’ll accrue ME & MP time quickly. You’ll have the hours for an ATPL after about 2 years but most importantly it provides a safe & structured environment for you to learn the basics. You’ll come away a very good IF pilot which will serve you for the rest of your career and the training structure will teach you a lot that you can also take forward.

LZ

Technically, only as commander of an SK92 (or other MPH only certified helicopter), or where the regs otherwise mandate two pilots (I.e. MOSPC >19 pax, or >9 pax IR). Otherwise you can do this with a CPL onshore. EASA have already made this regulation, and the UK will follow, with current exemptions already available subject to meeting minimum hours requirements.

Question 1. No, it's a rolling 7 years so effectively it's unlimited

Question 2. Unlocking your ATPL gives you a higher qualification so it will not harm your career prospects, it will improve them.

Thank you for answering my main concern, I shouldn't have to do the IR exams again unless it takes me a further 2 years to do my IR which I hope isn't the case!

I haven't totally written off offshore as such althought being a southerner I am slightly reluctant to relocate to Aberdeen for at least 3 years due to the bond period especially as I have no interest in that sector. I interviewed with an operator who has more or less given more a job if I want pending completion of my IR, they have told me I have "passed all the interview and screening stages". I do see however it would be potentially a huge risk to throw away an offshore job and the hours that come with it.

In your opinion would you say I'd be looked at more favourably when applying for HEMS/NPAS/onshore work if I had offshore experience compared to say having PIC onshore experience having done tours/instructing or onshore P2 hours? I'm aware the standardisation and regulation of training offshore will likely be much better than what I'd get say flying tours onshore.

Not quite sure what happened with multiquote not working above so my apologies. So thank you to everyone who replied above, everything you've said is greatly appreciated.

Hot LZ, thank you, its why I chose rotary in the first place really.
I see what you mean and definitely agree that it would be a great environment to learn the basics and get good at IR flying (I can't say I really like it from what I've done so far so I guess all the more reason to experience more of it).
I've heard that offshore can be a bit of a trap for pilots (mostly for the money and work-life balance) but is it a relatively easy transition to come back to get an onshore job especially if all I would have would be offshore P2 hours? The company I interviewed for says they do offer PICUS experience but would this say count as proper P1 hours in the eyes of HEMS/NPAS?
The main reason why I'm so reluctant to go offshore is that all the onshore companies state they want lots and lots of 'relevant experience' and I'm not sure that only having offshore counts for that? In your opinion based off of experience and making me a more desirable pilot would you say offshore experience would be looked on more favourably than flying onshore tours and potentially instructing across the country?

Rudestuff, thank you very much for you answers, that makes me rather relieved regarding my first question. I had a feeling that having the ATPL would certainly help but I wasn't sure if not having it would be a severe hindrance so thank you again.

Go for HEMS if you really aren't interested in relocating and offshore work, you may not get the big offshore hours but if you enjoy it and when the time comes you'll have the hours in the "relevant environment" for a command position

MBMFheli, I’ve sent you a PM.

LZ