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Reply to John's last post:
John, the loss of T/R drive anecdote that I had heard did not achieve balanced or prolonged controllable flight. From recollection they had to enter a lowish power descent with right turn and I would guesstimate some degree of slip but personally uncertain.......but importantly ....it bought them time so say a few Chinese expletives (ie "ahh F..k") and to make a few decisions and pull off a relatively safe landing/termination with all on board safe as I recall...
I know...growing old ain't for the faint hearted... Cheers RG |
The S92a hums system New and old does have green amber red indicators as in other systems.
It also has a "toolbox " which in the early hums you had to upload separately in the later it is done with the main download of the card. In the tool box is specific programs which look at tail gearbox bearing energy, tail rotor dis-bond, Mgb foot skew and engine drive shafts. These programs give you another green or red indicator to simplify and speed up hums analysis of critical previous problem areas. |
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Mitchaa - It is my understanding that HUMS was effective with a warning in this case |
Close Calls do not count statistically.
I would say the Crew deserves a "Well Done! for getting the aircraft onto the Deck!:ok: |
Looking at the deck there may be a hard landing check in order.
Well done that crew in anycase. |
Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 9629716)
I would say the Crew deserves a "Well Done! for getting the aircraft onto the Deck!:ok:
Plus the relatively wide track of the main gear of the S-92 probably was a good thing in this case as well. Had it fallen on its side the outcome might have been different. |
It doesn't add much, but the AAIB says it is now sending a team to investigate. (An hour earlier, it said merely that it was looking into reports of an incident.)
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Yes Henra the 92 is like a flat iron compared to some other helicopters.
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Interesting to see the nosewheel at 90° - I wonder what effect it would have had if it had been lockable? Might have either resisted the rotation, or exacerbated the tendency to roll over!
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If there was some loss of tail rotor control, would the canted tail rotor and its complex yaw/pitch coupling of control inputs have compounded attempts to control the aircraft and get it planted onto the deck? A loss of lift at the tail might explain the slice in the aluminium alloy decking, seen in 2 of the photos, roughly radial to the landing circle.
The crew did well to keep it on deck, once it had made initial contact, and not hit the nearby crane. Or worse. |
Just speculating but are the cuts in the deck caused by the wheel rim?
If so the tires must have nearly been rolled off the rim. Must have been an interesting few seconds. |
Nice to see a happy ending to someone’s really really bad day.
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They don't call them poopy suits for no good reason!
212 man: not an expert by anymeans but I suspect that the ability of the 92 nose gear to castor was beneficial, in this case, to keeping the aircraft upright. A locked nosewheel would, I think, have contributed to any rolling movement. I wonder how much the aircraft actually tilted. Thoughts? |
If you allow the aircraft to yaw freely (castoring nosewheel) then I wonder if it has more tendency to roll in the opposite direction to the turn than if the nosewheel is sliding (resisting the yaw) - just a thought.
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When landing a heavy plank wing with a steerable nosewheel when you let the nose drop and there is substantial weight on the nose wheel then the cams will ensure that you can only control its direction with nosewheel steering. In a severe crosswind this can lead to some deft fiddling with the tiller to keep it straight.
In this case I would have thought that the castoring nosewheel would have been a help rather than a hindrance. |
Think there will be some concern about the deck surface failing. Wonder if the CAA will have some changes to CAP 437 regarding 'punching'.
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Energy has to go somewhere: 12 tonnes flailing around. In this case, a significant amount has gone into deforming the deck.
Where else do you want it to go? We can have glass hard deck but then it's more likely that energy will carry the aircraft over the edge. |
Crab,
Is there a difference between the reaction of an aircraft to the Castoring Wheel being in front of the mast or behind the mast as say in a 92 and a Wessex/61.....re Tipping Tendency? |
PC2DLE.......
Is the 92 operated to PC1 or still the PC2DLE fudge?
From all accounts very fortuitous (!) the failure happened when it did and well done to the crew. NOT SAYING IT IS THE CASE HERE - but got me thinking - intrigued on bearing load factors with a regular practice I have seen - almost a 'snatch' application of power as crews decelerate with min torque set (quickstop-esque) then apply power just before decision to 'make' the DPBL - albeit with a pinch of salt. Evident from 'newcomers' from other companies. Cannot help but feel such a manoeuvre does not help situation. Does CHC track such parameters on HOMPs - I ask because it is something our customer insist we monitor....... |
Julie Andrews: Yes they do, for CHC they use FDM ( Flight Data Monitoring) to meet the requirements of HOMP.
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Sasless - I don't think there is a difference - I was thinking about ground taxiing a 365 (castoring nosewheel) and how it rolls out of the turn when you yaw it. The same used to happen in the Wessex/Sea King (castoring tailwheel) - one Wessex student of mine many years ago got us up on two wheels (left main and tail) being a little spirited with his first ground taxiing!
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Is the 92 operated to PC1 or still the PC2DLE fudge? |
the 92 operated to PC1 or still the PC2DLE fudge? |
I can't see either, like 212man, how PC1 or PC2DLE in this case is relevant.
Edited to take out comment "terminus mos: you clearly don't know 212man's background do you?" because I misread his post. Thanks for pointing this out 212man. |
terminus mos: you clearly don't know 212man's background do you? |
sorry gents - should have been a bit clearer.
I'm thinking about how different profiles require different applications of power and the individual's 'individualist' approach to applying them. I have been sat in seat where pilot thought a quickstop and 'snatch' of power at the end was a good way of approaching and thought the geartrain would not 'like' it. thank you for clarifying PC1 profile and HFDM following. |
Breaking: Sikorsky grounds all S-92 helicopters after North Sea platform incident
Written by Lee McCann and Niamh Burns - 10/01/2017 10:09 am All North Sea helicopter flights have been grounded today over safety fears. Sikorsky S92 helicopters have returned to base following a probe into a recent incident on a North Sea platform. It’s understood the request to ground the S-92s was at the request of Sikorsky. A spokesman for Aberdeen International Airport said: “We are aware of a safety alert that has been issued for all S92 helicopters and are anticipating a potential impact on helicopteroperations over the next few days until essential maintenance has been carried out. We will support the operators as much as possible through this disruption.” The move comes after an incident involving an S-92 on a North Sea platform last month. The helicopter flight had been making a shuttle flight between Total’s Elgin platform facilities and West Franklin, around 130 miles off the coast of Aberdeen. Images later emerged of the damage to the platform as the flight attempted to land with nine passengers and two crew on board. A source at the time said the S-92 took “gouges out” of the helideck, damaged its wheels and spun on the deck of the West Franklin when it was forced to land. The decision to ground S-92s comes after Super Pumas were banned in the wake of a North Sea helicopter crash off the coast of Norway which killed 13 people on April 29th last year. |
Fleet of 225's seen heading up the A90 to Aberdeen.
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And HUMS close monitoring of the Tail Rotor Pitch Change Bearing is now required.
Sikorsky taking the lead from Airbus? |
Anyone got a copy of the Safety alert /SB to share?
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Can we assume that this grounding includes SAR S92's ?
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Originally Posted by pitch horn
(Post 9636078)
Can we assume that this grounding includes SAR S92's ?
S92A Alert Service Bulletin - HeliOffshore |
Well I'd say it is a grounding - a short term one until some maintenance action is carried out. The aircraft is grounded in the interim.
I guess it depends on what sort of a spin you want to put on it. If it was a 225 in the frame, everyone would be clamouring "Grounding"! |
I guess it depends on what sort of a spin you want to put on it. If it was a 225 in the frame, everyone would be clamouring "Grounding"! |
Are these flights on hold, S92s, or is it weather?
07:00 07:11 77D REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 08:50 Landed None 07:00 07:14 48C CONOCO PHILLIPS PETROLEUM COMPANY U 08:41 Landed None 07:00 07:34 45B REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 08:09 Landed None 07:10 07:23 51E REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 08:21 Landed None 08:00 ... 43G B.G. INTERNATIONAL (CNS) LIMITED 10:50 Flight on Hold EGPD / LOMON / EGPD 08:15 ... 63J DANA PETROLEUM PLC 10:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / TRIT / EGPD 10:15 ... 45K REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 12:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / TARTA / EGPD 11:00 ... 62Q CONOCO PHILLIPS PETROLEUM COMPANY U 17:30 Delayed EGPD / BRITP / EGPD 11:00 ... 56N MARATHON OIL U.K. LLC 14:35 Flight on Hold EGPD / BRAEA / BRAEB / EBRAE / EGPD 11:00 ... 51M REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 13:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / NORA / EGPD 11:00 12:55 74R REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 14:50 Outbound EGPD / BUCHA / EGPD 12:00 ... 43T B.G. INTERNATIONAL (CNS) LIMITED 14:40 Flight on Hold EGPD / EVER / EGPD 12:30 ... 74A REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 16:25 Delayed EGPD / BUCHA / EGPD 13:30 ... 76B REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 16:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / FUL / EGPD 14:00 ... 48E CONOCO PHILLIPS PETROLEUM COMPANY U 16:55 Flight on Hold EGPD / JASM / EGPD 14:00 ... 45D REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 16:20 Flight on Hold EGPD / PIPER / EGPD 14:30 ... 77G REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 17:45 Flight on Hold EGPD / CLYDE / AUKA / EGPD 15:30 ... 48G CONOCO PHILLIPS PETROLEUM COMPANY U 18:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / CORIV / EGPD 16:00 ... 58H PETROFAC FACILITIES MANAGEMENT LTD 18:20 Flight on Hold EGPD / FPF1 / EGPD 17:30 ... 51L REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 20:15 Flight on Hold EGPD / XSAB / NORA / EGPD 18:00 ... 62U CONOCO PHILLIPS PETROLEUM COMPANY U 20:30 Flight on Hold EGPD / BRITP / EGPD 18:00 ... 51K REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 20:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / XSAB / EGPD 18:30 ... 74B REPSOL SINOPEC RESOURCES UK LTD 20:25 Flight on Hold EGPD / BUCHA / EGPD |
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..upon receiving the bulletin took the decision ... Compliance is essential. |
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