noooby

think they are a very proper helicopter compared to Frank's products

This used to wind me up when I did my PPL - I'm not sure if it was just at the flying school I used but I must have paid hundreds of pounds just warming the oil on the first flight of the day...

No problem now. It all just counts towards your licence minimum hours :suspect:

Had an argument with our Quality Manager over the old definition. He couldn't understand why tech. log times were skids off wheels/skids off to wheels/skids on and crew times took the full works into account, eventually our FOI had to put him right.

I flew for a NS operator who tried to take taxi and deck times out because all the pilots were running at 798 hours on their rolling 365 day totals and taking out RR time would give them another 50-60 hours a year (or quite a few pilots when you spread it out over a whole company)

FF

New ways of abusing the system will no doubt follow new definitions. It is the way of the world.

Flight times
 

Just to add another notch to the debate.

Except for Robinson, I've never used any system for helicopters other than as follows and as mentioned earlier.

Pilot log book times: Rotor blades turning.
Tech log and aircraft/engine log times: Skids off to skids on.

Just bear in mind that should there be any kind of ground incident with rotors turning ... it will be the pilot at the controls who is deemed responsible. So as I have argued before. Pilot responsible ... pilot logs hours as Captain.

Oh and just a tit-bit from too many years in the business.

Be wary of any legal action that emanates from the use of a Datcon or similar instrument's recording of flying time. Yonks ago, a court decided that a claim based on a mechanical instrument reading (in that case flying hours) must fail unless the subject mechanical instrument had been inspected and declared accurate by the weights & measures department of the UK Customs & Excise. The same system exists for every car forecourt fuel delivery pump. Years ago we used to see the Customs men on the forecourts with their funny brass containers checking the delivery accuracy of the pumps.

Happy days I say! Regards to all. Dennis K.

Could anyone clear this up for FAA license. I have always used the hobbs meter, weather it was a rev or maintenence. Over the years I keep hearing this debate and understand once that starter is depressed you are responsible, but flying 109's for a number of years there was only a maintence hobbs. I logged that so if the FAA looked at my log book and the aircraft flight logs would match, its the more conservative route less likely to get into trouble if something were to happen.

I don't need to flight time for any requirements, but would like to know if the blades are turning it is considered under its own power.

Thanks