The black comedy of Euro licensing
 

Here's a current situation.

ATPL(H) with a UK-issued JAR license, LPC, medical wants to go flying in Ireland.
IAA say that his language proficiency statement doesn't comply with standards.

Apparently the UK CAA have been issuing licenses with this error and have failed to do anything about it.Or even inform the holders. All other "States" turn a blind-eye - but not the Irish.

So - an English pilot has to prove he can speak English before he can fly in Eire.

CAA say they can issue a letter "in 10 days". That'll be 8 days after the flight, then.

This is a plainly ridiculous cock-up by the CAA - and an even more ridiculous pedantic knee-jerk by little minds in Dublin.

Please take the 1957 Treaty of Rome and shove it somewhere dark.

The CAA don't routinely put language levels on their licenses (don't ask me why), mine is ICAO level 6 but it doesn't say that anywhere else but on the CAA computer. Considering they are saving money on printing double sided licenses, so they don't fit in you little book without cutting it up, maybe they are saving on ink too.

Si

Mate of mine recently ramp checked ....
CAA... Sir please could you tell me if this is a private or commercial flight ?
Friend .....err i havent decided yet but will let you know when i get back to base .
CAA ...Ok . But please could i see your insurance ?
Friend ...No we dont have insurance . We self insure which you will find is allowed in EASA Document X Part 4 blah ..blah ..
CAA Really ? I didnt know that ...thankyou i shall have to go and look it up ....there are so many new rules its hard to keep track!!

Just remember to feed them the BS they are used to and they will swallow it :D

Latest:

CAA FCL are aware that they have been issuing faulty JAR licenses that don't comply with standards. This will remain the case until July because "our systems aren't designed to cope with the language proficiency levels."

So - this bureaueurocratic cock-up means that all UK JAR holders will be grounded if caught in Eire without a letter from the CAA confirming the level of their language proficiency.

FFS! Mother tongue or what?

At least you are not an American.....everyone knows we can barely master "English" and for sure cannot speak any other foreign languages.:uhoh:

I would guess as mere possession of an FAA License would prove English Language Competency as that is a requirement for the license under the Regulations.

Granted we probably need a waiver for "American" in order to qualify for the English that is specified in the Reg.:rolleyes:

In in the UK....we would have to apply for....take a half dozen tests administered by Urdu speaking Pakistani's...and pay twelve different fees and charges to meet that requirement.:ugh:

Ya'll do have a much better system over there don't you?:E

Sometimes you are better not asking if something is legal or not ....if it is reasonable and sensible that should be ok . Firstly what are the chances of being caught ? Approx zero . What would happen if you were caught ? Approx zero . And dont forget that you do not have to talk to or show anything to Mr CAA if he asks you as he has no legal authority ... and you can just get in your heli and fly off home .

The only way to fight a Bureaucracy is with a larger Bureaucracy!

Where did this idea come from?

Mutt

Latest: CAA have actually now written a letter to confirm that the English pilot can speak English to "level 6".

Did I miss the end of the world?

I had to do an English Proficiency Test when I did my Chinese licence despite me having an CAA JAR and an Australian licence. The test was in Chinglish with an Australian accent. I failed according to the computer but they changed it to a pass because I was English.

Latest: the pilot is an FI(H). He actually signs-off language proficiency tests for people.

Honestly - if this was a script for a comedy it would be rejected for being unlikely in real life.

An Irish pilot has to do the same thing, so what's the big deal? IAA issued JAA licences have the English proficiency level entered in the remarks section.

Mutt

Mutt .....You cannot legally detain anyone in this country without police presence ....thats why half the "Police" you see wondering around are really only a visible threat . They are actually normal citizens dressed to look like police and have no power to detain / search etc etc Your CAA bloke is just a citizen so if he tries to detain you , just sue them ....or just shove him out of your way . They rely on people being ignorant of the law and then incriminating themselves .

Interesting..... but I think that there is a difference between "being asked to produce documents" and "being detained".

I somehow don't think that your approach will be acceptable during my next SAFA check.

Mutt

I think thats slightly different !! All i am saying is you just say you are too busy and they can call to discuss another day ....then you scurry home and sort your paperwork out !!

i think you are wrong there. A CAA Inspector carries a Warrant card with the full legal privileges that gives him. He can ground you on the spot.

I think he can advise you that your flight is not legal but "ground" you? How would he actually (as in physically prevent you taking off) do that?

You have to have two language level proficiency in your JAA licence ( English-ELP and local LP :eek:) ...if you are English-man in UK, you need only one. Lucky you :ugh:

Ahh, the madness of European licensing. The rest of the world laughs at us, with a good reason.

I.A.A. = The Institute Against Aviation.

500 Fan.