Why does wind direction matter? We taught wingovers into and downwind. The aircraft is flying in a parcel of air - if that air happens to be moving over the ground, so what? It's airspeed that matters.

OB.....the higher the GS....the steeper the angle needed to arrive at your "target" on the ground....as the GS increase...it would follow the angle would steepen as well...along with the ROD needed to get there.....and that is where the Rub comes. If you wind up into Wind....the GS slows...Dive Angle decreases....ROD decreases....and less OOMPH needed at the bottom.

What I saw in the video was how flat the pull up was at the start of the maneuver which shaved height off the pull up....and the rest was history when the Pilots did not realize what had happened. Add in a fairly high DA....and it got interesting quickly.

I think the guy on the ground at 23 seconds in is lucky . The tail seems to hit a bale of some sorts and tumbles forward . The guy on the ground just behind the bale hits the ground head first into the snow :ooh:

You can see at the beginning of the video on the bottom right side he is marshalling the Apache for the landing, I think what you see beside him is a slingload ready to go and he is calling the Apache in to pick it up.

Lucky him anyway and everybody else as mater of fact.

JD

What a way to get drummed out of the forces eh?
With luck he'll lose his pension too:ugh:

I'm waiting for the summary from SilsoeSid on what paperwork needed to be done before and after that one.

BTW, i think a lot of viewers don't realise that the Bell 206 video is just the standard procedure for converting high skids to low skids.

Fairweatherflyer

I've just laughed my ar:mad:e off for 10 minutes at that comment.
Awesome

Joel :ok::ok::ok::ok:

One of the news agencies reports that they were in the course of practicing a "fast return" ? manoeuvre when it went pear shaped.

So whilst the motivation looks like showboating the real cause may be something very different.


Wish all helis were built as tough!

Mickjoebill

Return to Target.....means return to a firing position....does not involve over flying the target....and sure doesn't involve crossing the target at naught feet and warp speed! At least that goes for an Apache/Cobra gunship.....now us Chinook drivers....have been known to suppress with wreckage as this Apache pilot tried to imitate.

They were having a Jolly....and bit it in the shorts!

JetRanger video
 

@ rotorrookie;

The guy in the jetbox in Austria (Ohlsdorf) was damn lucky. That tail-boom could have broken off, and then the aircraft would have spun out of control with a survivability next to zero...

Chipmunk - flying like that, both the apache and 206, happens everyday, thousands of times a day, by ag pilots around the world. Generally without the wreckage, although some of the ag guys have managed to smash it in better, or worse, depending on your point of view.

those turns can be done very safely, into wind, out of wind, up wind, down wind, no wind, whatever. they are also done full (heavy) and empty (light), and also with loads already attached to the hook.

when i first saw the video, i thought the comments were how close he came to hitting the building with his tail wheel on the first pass. another couple of feet there and he would have ripped the roof off. even in a war situation there is no point going that low and close over a building, why not a couple of feet higher, or to the side, so that when you screw up at least you only wreck the helicopter.

While it may have been a high DA, it looks like he was coming in to lift a load, odd for an apache, but if that was the case then he would have had ample power for the situation...

That was some of the best flying I have ever seen, right up to the point where you (nearly) killed yourselves. More importantly the troops on the ground who have enough danger without that. Hope the court martial saves more money in the long term with a ground based tour in the Stan.:D

Fairweatherflyer and JTobias. Silsoe Sid is a very experienced and capable professional helicopter pilot who has flown in situations that would make you two amateurs !!!!! yourselves. Your obvious lack of professionalism and maturity on this and other threads make you the objects of derision and hilarity amongst those who know better.

Barking up the totally wrong tree if you want to start the mil/civ or even the private/commercial discussion, as anyone that knows me will verify.
:=

JT, people in glass houses......;)

After watching that video about 50 times now I just don't know. Stop and play the video a number of times between 0:24 and 0:25. You can clearly see the Apaches airframe getting wider along with the background very quickly as if the Video was edited at that point. The whole thing looks suspicious to me.

The horizontal stabilizer is broken off on contact with the load which is on the ground near the man who has the lucky escape.

I think it's safe to say they can add a new pilot's seat to the bill, that brown stain doesn't come off easily..:}:}:}

Nothing wrong with hammerheads at altitude when done properly.

Atacama desert, Chile, Alt 14300 ft B205 -17 with 205 blades

JD



Hamerheadchile.mp4 video by jacdor - Photobucket

The video went national this morning on TV.
I'm going to suggest that this is a CGI:
When the cab pancakes onto the ground - it's not right?
When it pirouettes after impact negative tail rotor - it's not breaking up enough?
The rotors aren't coning at all???
The people in the dim and distant horizon are running away?


Something fishy about this video.

CNN have also aired it and someone is saying the D0D have made an official statement that they are looking into the affair???

This might be down to the camera, I know some of the little HD jobbies (e.g. Go Pro's etc.) have a "fish eye" type lens and, given that 0:24 - 0:25 is the point at which the Apache is closest to the camera, thats the point at which the "stretch" is most obvious...

...on the other hand it could be due to CGi trickery (it is a very pronouced shift, thats for sure) so I await the facts with interest.