Maybe they are a bit smaller in Europe, or a bit less gas, with closer refueling stops? We're not all in a big ol country like the US...

From home 1hrs flight gets me past about 7 or 8 Jet pumps, and within 10 mins of another 4... And I think I'm stuck out in the sticks.

You are making the mistake of assuming that any calculation was made Gordy.

Hi guys,

I don't know if the pilot made the calculation of the MTOW and performances but I think he could do it.
I never fly this maquine but some years ago I flew koala for firefighting operations in spain and I always did it.
With a koala you can carry 7 bombers, bambi bucket and about 2 hours of fluel.

I have news that the pilot was flying low level and the helicopter had a hydraulic failure.

Epiphany

Exactly the point I was trying to make. I still find it hard to believe that you can fit 6 fire fighters AND Yes the US is a but one still needs to carry about 90 minutes of fuel. And we have a ground support vehicle that follows with 800 gallons on it.

As an example, here is what I am required to fill out each day, obviously I am still in the "flatland" portion of my contract:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...ther/57Z-1.jpg

As you can see, the USFS makes us subtract 180lbs of useful load for safety reasons, leaving me with a useful load of 942lbs.

That's called professionalism and proper prior planning Gordy. Unheard of in some areas. I hope some people take note.

Epiphany---you are correct.

In the interest of maybe helping those who do not have "set" forms or need some help, here is my manifest for the day. Feel free to use these or make your own based upon these. They get filled out every day for the prevailing temperature. In Idaho, where I am for the summer and fall season, we complete load calcs for different elevation/temperature ranges, and will adjust the fuel accordingly. We have a 10 minute dispatch time.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...r/IMG_0507.jpg

Each of our firefighters has 2 weights. One is just them in their flight gear, and the other one, (used here), is their "IA" weight, (initial attack). IA weight includes their line pack which typically weigh 40lbs, and a sleeping bag.

If anyone would like some of these forms, I do have them all in either excel or pdf format.

You would think (hope) thiis stuff gets worked out but no disrespect to the people involved maybe not.

I have worked in .es IA with a 205A1 in Catalunya. Mind you that was pre-GPS and internet even!

Had a bit of a giggle with similar records being computed for a 212. Every MTOW was worked as 11,200 lbs - yeah right.

Gordy - your weight includes, helmet, flight suit, maps, lunch, side arm, steel cap boots, etc etc...............or ? :ouch:

RVDT

Yes and no....If you look on the load calculation in section 14 it states:

So yes we get weighed with flight gear on, so it does include helmet, I no longer wear a flight suit----way too egotistical for my liking......I wear nomex pants and yellow shirt to blend with my crew.

No maps, we are fully digital now with gps, although we do carry an initial attack, (IA), bag which has forest maps in it.

No lunch---that travels on our chase truck, (although I do have some food in my pack, and there is also emergency food in the survival pack).

No side arm allowed in the lower 48, and no steel cap boots on a fire line.

In fact, the only thing not included in the weight & balance calculations is Timothy, who is on the "trip" of a lifetime---I turned him round for this picture:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3...6-25171713.jpg

Link to the article:
Google Traductor

Regards
Aser