nigelh. well said ,agree with you 100% obviously you have had the french engine EXPERIENCE just like myself, others will learn the hard way soon !! but be carefull it is illegal to disclose these facts , might ruin the sale of someone's ec120. My solution was similair to your idea, sold my single squirrel and bought a twin squirrel with allison engines. now i have no turbomeca, still in a squirrel which i love, an autopilot, dual hydraulics, sas, force trim, etc.and no scary bills. plus money left over ! and the safety and security of being in a twin.

I intend to get another 350 B2 ( is it a D with the 101 engine ?) at some point but waiting to find the right timex engine machine to do it with . Never ever ever turbomeca again thats a PROMISE !!!!!! Just about to pick up a 500C which will be fun for the summer ..but its not a squirrel ....
ps have both your engines had containment ring fitted ?? Last fly date is november and then you are GROUNDED !!!!! ( and you will then be in a queue with hundreds of 109,s, 206,s , 500,s, 355,s to name just a few )

nigelh. yes, had a 500c for a long time back in the ninetys, great fun machine, you will enjoy it . hopefully we both should have a good summers flying without the turbomeca worry. !!

John R81 - 10th March Post
 

G'day John,

Apologies for the delayed thanks for your reply - I have been flying :ok: !

I understand your comments about power (although I am not sure I agree - I need to fly one for some more hours - it needs to be able to do what I want), and I agree with the comments about tail rotor authority - you do just need to think a bit in advance. Again, more hours on the 120 and I will be able to make a better decision.

Bell Flyer - 14th March

Yep, I have seen the Dymocks machine (the old one, currently for sale at Eurocopter) and it's "nice". I have also seen the coolest fitout of a new B3 (black and yellow on the outside), so YES you are correct, you can make the interior look fantastic...but outside ?

I'm getting my endorsement on the R66 next week...then I will have even more to consider. For those interested, I shall continue with the dialogue. For the others, apologies for the boring decision making process !

Arrrj

Colibri vs Bo 105
 

Dear All,

I would need your advise. I have been offered a ec 120, 1999, with 3200 tt and a Bo 105 1983 4000+ tt, well maintained, with lots of spare parts. Similar prices. The bo is a little less expensive. Sometimes I fly to windy and confined areas. Which one you recommend I chose?

Tks in advance
Ramon

STC for weight modification
 

Hi

Since I fly EC120 regulary I have noticed, that the machine has some vibration, if CG is inits forward li it. Especially if I fly alone.

Is there anyone, who could send me link for STC that will put this ballast in tail in order to companesate for this?

EC 120B 12 year inspection
 

toptobottom. I fly serial# 1078 in the US. We are either the first or second 12 year on the east coast and probably the country coming up in December. Baltimore City PD may have the first one. I'm told the 12 year is about 300 manhours and depending on how much must be replaced on the airframe, I think you are looking at anywhere from $100k to $200k. We just finished a 500 hour on ours and she has never flown better.

I keep my helicopter at Pascan in Montreal. They have just completed the 3rd EC120 12-year service. I think they are the first service shop having done the 12yr so far but then again, I read the some stuff you guys do. It’s quite a job and runs between $130-$150k if no surprises. The last one was more due to a transmission issue. PM me if you want additional information.

wes120b/Helipilot1 - Thanks guys :ok:.
Conversion from Canadian is about £82k - £95k sterling and from US about £64k - £128k.
It'll be interesting to see what 'surprises' there are and what happens to resale values either side of the first wave of 12 year inspections...

ILblog,

check PM.

Eurocopter EC-120 Torque fluctuations
 

Hello,

We have on one of our EC-120's a torque fluctuation. And it also doesn't passes it power check and inflight loss of FLI.

We have changed everything that can be changed: VEMD, engine, electrical mastbox, torque sensor, helicopter wirring etc.

Also incontact with Eurocopter and Turbo Meca, butt still without resutl.

Does anyone have had this problem before, and knows a solution/suggestions?

Thanks already

What does she do during the torque sensor calibration procedure? Does the VEMD and torque sensor respond correctly and update the torque reading vs pressure on the logcard? There is software differences causing problems on the torque system between the sensor and VEMD's.

As E-T points out it sounds like the FCU.

If you have more then one machine swap an FCU from a known good setup and try it.

Sounds like you have had an expensive diagnosis so far.

Best of Luck

A question for EC120 gurus:

I had a problem with collective friction on one particular helicopter. All the time I flew with the same friction setting. For the first hour or so, the friction was uniform through the whole operatinional travel of the collective. After time the friction was getting hard to about 7, 7.5 FLI TQ, after 8 FLI it sort of released and the friction was like before 7 FLI. The manitenance team took apart the whole collective assembly and checked the whole control system, no problems found, everything in limits.

Than on one flight, I experienced the same problem, the friction got harder from 7-8 FLI TQ and I released the friction completely moved the collective up and down a few times, set the friction to practical full on, did the movement again, set it back to my normal preference, and the problem was gone for about an hour flight time.

Any idea what the problem would be? We are running out of ideas. Did something like that ever happen to you?

EC120 starter shaft sheared (TWICE) any ideas ?
 

Firstly may I wish everyone a happy and prosperous new year.

I have this problem and I,m hoping someone on here can maybe shed some light on it.
My 120 went in in July 11 for routine maintenance and had new brushes fitted to the starter / generator, all was well until within a few months and around 6 flight hours, the starter shaft broke at the shear point.
A good few weeks on the floor waiting for a new shaft to arrive, and again all was well...... Apart from this time it lasted less than 4 hrs / 4 weeks...... And it's sheared again....
I can't really tell if it's doing it on start up or spool down maybe,
I hit the starter button on both occasions and the starter didn't even attempt to turn the engine.
Both times the starter has been removed and the tempory engine turning tool used to make sure engine is free and not seized or stiff.....

Has anyone had this before, do any of you guys have any ideas, maybe even more important because you never know ! Do any of you have an APC 160SG140Q starter laying around so I don't have to wait weeks for one to come from the states ?

Appreciate any help /ideas ...

Best regards

Nelly. :bored:

Hi Nelly,
Happy new year.

One of the things which springs to mind from other types is that if you don't take care when fitting the starter then loads are placed on the shaft as it is left hanging whilst the clamp is placed around it to hold it in place.

Did the same person fit both starters?

Normally they shear on start because this is when the largest load is placed on the shaft.

Pwrltd

Thanks for the reply pwrltd,
Yes I think the same person at maintenance did fit the starter on both occasions,
I have spoken to a eurocopter engineer who tells me that it is a two man job to refit the starter as its very easy to fracture the spline drive shear point....
There is also a big sticker on the starter saying it must be supported until retaining clamp is fitted.

What I'm trying to find out is could it be anything else, I was wondering does the starter actually swap to start mode momentarily when the starter button is pressed to shut down or is it locked out ?

I can't just keep throwing money at it replacing the starter / shaft without any sort of explanation other than 'ain't seen that happen before '

It does seem too coincidental to have started after brush replacement....
Just wondering if anyone else had come across this ?
It must have happened before or why the big sticker on the casing ?

Nelly

Not just a sticker
 

Nelly Copter
Pwrltd is correct, not just the sticker on the start-gen, the Bell MM warns against fitting without an extra pair of hands to support whilst the clamp is engaged and secured. Pretty much standard practice (you can even get the pilot to give you a hand ;)) - VFR

Hi Nelly,
I am not too familiar with the EC120, but I would have thought the starter is locked out, one thing to remember is that the starter/generator shaft is constantly engaged so once its turning the loads acting on it remains fairly constant, hence why they shear on start up when the rotors etc are stationary.

When it broke first time I assume you were in the field, hence did the starter/generator get replaced in the field? Were there two sets of hands available?

According to PartsBase there is one in Sweden:
Contact: Erik EdgrenPhone: 46-8-5454-9897Fax: +46 8 5511 4755Email: [email protected]Web Address:ex-changeparts ab

Good Luck!
pwrltd

It sounds like your engineer screwed up. Take it to EC UK.

Make sure you change the friction rings every couple hundred hours and use a dial gauge to make sure the shaft is centered before re-installation.

Nellycopter

Please check PMs for contact details requested.

Several EC120 being broken by Team Aero (www.teamaero.com) I understand.

Best of luck

John

The EC120 is a good machine and once you get some time on it you will find it is not a problem operating it at max weight.
pilot + 4 pax + baggage with 2+ hours fuel and cruise at 120 kts normally not a problem.
Maintenance not that expensive. I thought that maintenance in the states was supposed to be much cheaper than europe?
I know someone that had a 12 year done recently and i cost less than 40k stg

I'm helping my friend on his "homework" and the homework is about EC120, more exactly climb performance. The task requires to take-off with external cargo TOM = 1300kg at 1.000m, 8ºC and climb to 2.500m, -1ºC (ISA temperature gradient) to unload the cargo.

From the start, I really don't understand the origin of "corrected mass" but I must be getting the charts wrong as I get more climb performance at 2.500m than at 1.000m.

Corrected weight (5.8)
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...01at185840.png

Rate of climb (5.9)
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...01at185856.png

any ideas where I got it wrong?

Ski in EC120B?
 

Anyone know how to remove the wall between cabin and trunk to put skis in baggage area? I have found several pins there, but it semms to me, that the rear seats shoud be removed first.

Yip! Remove the rear seat, then pull the panel towards the cabin and release the quick release pins and the panel is off. You can reinstall the rear seat no problems but just be aware that if you have any fuel leak or sweating on your transfer tubes between the upper and lower tank you will have a fuel smell in the cabin.

What about that big door under the rear fuselage ?

What does the third hammer do ?
 

We recently had the hammers (anti vibration weights) tuned on our ec120'
Which has made a vast improvement, although as I trundle round at 70kt
I think I need to retune to 412 rrpm and not the 414rrpm we set them at !

My question now that I understand what the two under the cab do, is what does the third weight which is horizontal and under the instrument panel do ?

How is this one tuned ?
What vibration will it take out ?

Any help appreciated

Nelly

Hello Nelly,

The third hammer is also for 3 per rev. vibration, but for lateral. I have found with most 120's that if the aircraft needs work on the lateral hammer, the ride quality will have an "edge" to it that is more noticeable than a vertical 3 per. (Of course, I may just be the overly sensitive type when it comes to laterals!)

What kind of equipment is your Engineer using to tune with? Do you have the later style hammers with adjusting washers or the older shifting mass style? I would recommend upgrading if the answer is the older, as the newer style does make for much easier/more effective tuning.

Regards,

Rigidhead

Thanks for the reply rigidhead,

Our aircraft had its six year service and had to have the head completely stripped down, which of course may have disturbed a few things, so I had the track and ballance done at maintenance, which resulted in most of the washer weights on the blades being removed.
Track and ballance were just about bang on, but it gave the aircraft some very unusual vibrations through the floor.. Which I later found out it needed the 3per doing.
So we went to have them done with the microvib II,
Again it turned out that they were way out, we tuned them to 414 rrpm, which I think may need doing again at 411/412 rrpm as that's what I trundle round at ...

So when we do the underneath hammers next time is it worth doing the one in the front ? And is it tuned in exactly the same way as the others ?
Eg. 3xrrpm ?

Thanks for and help or advice,

Nelly

Phoinix:
The should be another chart that tells you how to get the corrected mass sorted out.

Besides the charts attached I found no others in reference to corrected weight.

That appears to be the correct chart.

Corrected Wt = GWt*1/density ratio (sigma)

US Standard Altitude 1976

online calculator

What size Ski's are you using that require that amount of room?
I echo 'victor papa' comments on the smell, as i've done a bit of cargo work in a 120. Make sure you're windows are wide open and vent the cabin as much as possible. Or alternatively buy shorter skis :ok:
NiBsy.

If you have a fuel smell in the cargo area, in addition to checking the transfer tubes take a look at the torque settings of the screws in the suspension plate in the top of the lower blader; where the bladder top is attached to the lower cargo floor. I don't mean the torque settings of the two bolts through the cargo floor.

If the screws are over-torques then the inner-bladder and outer-bladder metal plates can distort downwards in the centre and ease their edge-grip on the fuel bladder, and fuel can weep as a result. This would be more noticable when fuel quantity exceeds the volume of the lower bladder (about +240 KG? someone can correct me if that figure is wrong, I don't have the manual with me just now)

Re. Fuel Smell.

If the smell is a sort of cross between raw fuel/exhaust smell rather than
strictly a raw fuel quality, the adjusted fuel valve is often the culprit.

Regards,

Rigidhead

What to expect in a 12 year inspection
 

I read about some quite different figures when it comes to the 12Y inspection on a Colibri. According to this post back from Jan 2011 it is around 100-120k USD if nothing unusual arises, then in Jan 2012 somebody posted he heard about the same being done at 40k Sterling. So EUR 48,000 to EUR 90,000 leaves quite some room.

I am interested to hear about any other bills as there should have been a lot more 12Y inspections being done since beginning of 2011. I guess it is one reason why there are quite a lot of EC120 on the market before they hit the 12 year 'deadline'.

Furthermore could somebody confirm the time needed to be around 2-3 months (300 man hours plus availability of parts from EC)?

TIA

the difference in price could be explained with the necessity to change some item or not.
I'll try to give you an average price.

My machine is 100hrs along the process. Now stripped, and MRG cracked.

Anticipated 450 hrs scheduled work. Mandetory parts currently £10k. Plus VAT. Plus anything they find in the inspection. Plus any touch-up (or repaint) afterwards.

I will let you know when I get her back, and whether I recommend the maintenance outfit

Many thanks in advance for your info. 450hrs is a long time. I'll press my thumbs that you don't get a bad surprise.

btw ... do you (or anybody of you) know whether the owner of G-JJFB is on pp as well? Beautiful EC120 which is up for sale with only 315TT :ok: