Well... having weighed-up the evidence (on-line) and surveyed the damage (in the Brum Evening Post) I can state that its quite obvious that Al Kaieda wasn't the guy who did this - so Security at the airport is therefore absolutely perfect! No need to change anything at all!

- Ain't you got no insurance?

SASless

Pictures here of the hole cut in the fence...

Express&Star

http://www.expressandstar.com/wp-con...pter_arson.jpg


http://www.expressandstar.com/wp-con...pter_arson.jpg


Midlands TV news reports witness seeing felons departing on motorbike...:ooh:

N

Probably a short cut to the tea and stickies!

Is that gang grafitti on the sign over the hole in the fence?

Our cockpit clock(135) is clockwork, ie windup. I suppose the pilot could have left the standby horizon switched on. :=

Any(sensible) suggestions, heli-cal?

Because we are that effective. I don't think they were your "ordinary" street thug, somehow.

One PC on a night shift, £23000 to £33000 a year, depending on how long he's been serving. What's he going to do, sit in the aircraft all night? :(

Doesn't look that bad to me..........what does the MEL say?

I think Hunt n Hound summed it up, pointless debate about security and damage is best left out of it unil all the facts are known.
Sad day for all Air Operations Units accross the UK as this is supposed to be a secure airfield in the 2nd city of the UK with pax figures of about10 million.....I think everyone will be taking aclose look at security levels soon!

paarmo
 

May be paarmo was right after all. We do need civies so they can chase after the offenders who commit crimes like this....
:ugh:

SASless come on then lets here you bright ideas..... read previous posts
:mad:

"It is understood that a review of security has been launched at the site, which is part of Birmingham International Airport, although all an airport spokesman would say was that they were “confident” it met all necessary security guidelines"

Ah so the security was fine as it was "all within the guidelines". Now, where have we heard that before.....

Ill-informed speculation
 

I completely agree with Huntnhound! However I take exception to the comment from heli-cal, given that the unit concerned is based at an International Airport one might have assumed a degree of security was implicite. I assume heli-cal has some experience of aviation locations and can testify to the fact that most (Heathrow excepted but even they have had an incursion by demonstartors) are impossible to secure from unauthorised ingress, unless a limitless security budget is available.

In todays atmosphere of cost cutting and budget restrictions it is difficult to justify almost any extra expenditure on Air Support. To suggest that the West Midlands Police were incabable of protecting their own aircraft whilst it was parked at Birmingham International Airport shows a distinct lack of knowledge and understanding of Air Support and that heli-cal's comment was a worthless "cheap-shot".

Lets have some reasoned debate - not more ill-informed speculation.

Mal

It's not the first time, similar incident take place all the time. Just recently, high powered car recover from overnight cash point attack by myself, offenders got away and then car jacked innocent member of the public. I was right on getaway car. (Audi S8 can outrun Transit van and as soon as they got a lead up they dumped it.)

Car was taken to secure contractors compound and placed in a warehouse, prior to the car being examined by csi. Next day offenders then followed the contractor, attacked his vehicle and fired the getaway car.

When you’re dealing with well organized and motivated individuals not the normal day to dross thing like this happen. Only this time it just a bit more expensive.

Mal, to my mind you are only sort of right here. Yes, Heli-Cal's comment wasn't very helpful, but he makes a valid point. As a pilot I would expect a major intl airport like BHX to be secure, and take your point it is almost implicit. But you have to ask yourself which police force the airport resides in? WMP.

Who are ultimately responsible for the prevention of crime and disorder in the area covering BHX? WMP. The fact that it is an airport does not absolve them from their responsibility to prevent crime and disorder, if anything they should be more proactive around airfields, especially big ones.

In many ways this would be much more forgivable if it were a smaller airfield in a smaller police force... Coventry for instance, which is in Warwickshire (the smallest police force in the country outside City of London). But WMP is the 3rd biggest force (only the Met and PSNI are bigger), policing our country's second city and responsible for a major intl airport - in fact on most recent figures BHX was the 2nd biggest airport outside London.

People just expect better, and their "playing the victim" in it is ever so slightly galling. Of course, nobody expects any police force to be able to prevent or detect all crimes, that's just not reasonable; but if they can't look after their own helicopter it really doesn't bode well for the rest of us does it? At best its embarrassing, at worst its incompetent. I think it is probably somewhere between the two!

You're right, ultimately cost cutting and budget restrictions will have played a factor in this. The problem is that I don't think anyone is advocating spending more money on the actual ASU (they do a great job), people are understandably concerned that someone was able to break into a large airport and torch ~US$5m worth of aircraft - in front of the very people we pay a lot of money to in order to protect us. I normally hate the "terrorism card" being played - but if it is this easy, could they have put something on the ATR72 pictured next to G-WMAO? Or one of Ryanair's 738's?

Really disagree. They were incapable of protecting there own aircraft, that much is fact, it was in their charge and it got set fire to. I don't think that is a cheap shot at all. Now to what extent they mistakenly placed too much trust in BHX security is another issue... however, they can't say they weren't warned about the quality of that either (see here).

Now, my little rant about WMP over - this is an absolute tragedy for us as pilots; and I'm sure that other ASU's will review their security in light of it. I shall miss seeing G-WMAO over work (I work very near BHX); and I hope that Sid & Co find a new ride soon!

As a question, was it commercially insured or crown indemnity does anyone know?

HeliCraig,

Tell you what, you protect your ipod as best you can and I will wait for my opportunity to take it from you!

SS

SS: I totally concede, and did in my original post, that it isn't possible to prevent all crimes all the time, but I think most members of the public will be shocked & disappointed that something so valuable was apparently so easily destroyed. I believe people expect better of a large police force, thats all.

It certainly wasn't intended as any criticism of any one employee / officer of WMP as I am sure they (you) all go out to do the very level best they can with the tools they are given - it was more aimed at the system / politics that have resulted in this.

(Oh, and if you're now over the road with nothing to do pop over and I'll get you a bacon sarnie!)

Helicraig, do you really think it was easily destroyed?

Looking forward to the sarnie, you're on!

why do some people assume that when a Police A/C is going to be attacked that the perpetrators will publish their itinery ? !!!:rolleyes:
A petrol bomb thrown at the aircraft is pretty much a done deal !!
Security at most airports,isn't all that people seem to think.:eek:There aren't roving armed patrols trip wires and the like.Some aircraft are vulnerable from public access points, so no security breech would even be required!

Just asking a simple question, why wasn't the aircraft tucked away in a hangar o'night?

Slightly off topic but same concept. Try telling that to the friends and family of the people killed in the twin towers. There was some thing with security at the airport, in air, fast jet support to prevent it and they knew it was coming and they still managed to destroy it

So if a 24hr operation air support unit helicopter parked in the grounds of an international airport, with a fence, armed police and a roving patrol. With no idea that it was going to happen. How on earth can you plan for what happend.

I think its a pretty good indication that air support prevents crime and catches criminals if they feel the need to destroy a chopper.

Then I guess there would be a burnt chopper inside a burnt hanger. If they want to do it they will.

I guess for all those people who want to moan that it was not protected then look at sids comment. You protect your car, or house, or mobile phone, wallet, forever. I won't tell you when I gonna steal it. But i bet you I could.....with ease. ( oh and i would'nt use a motorbike if that helps)

Budgie,
If you are a 24 hour operation whose effectiveness depends on quick reaction times then your aircraft does not go into a hangar. This is especially true at WMids who don't have one.

The reason being the aircraft flys 24hrs. Vital minutes would be lost if the crew had to take the aircraft out of the hanger each time:ugh:

Ok Budgie, I'll bite, but only a little!!

Which makes it entirely irrelevant. There is no suggestion that WMP knew this was coming at all - and I am sure if they did it would be a totally different outcome.

In the same way you plan for any other unexpected incidence. You take worst case and plan around it. However, I have worked in a clothes warehouse with, by the looks of it, a better fence. An alarm would go if it was cut, touched or inteferred with. That was for a warehouse full of jeans... and I saw it at work one night, and Warwickshire police felt a few collars as a result. Surely BHX should have similar?

Absolutely, these are determined people and it may have been impossible to stop them. My point was that the general public expect the police to be the able to protect at least their own assets.... in hind sight this may be an unrealistic expectation.

You will never stop a really determined criminal, not with all the deterrents in the world, it just appears on the face of it to have been a little to easy. I hope, as Sid elludes to, it wasn't. WMP need to salvage the best of this situation and make sure the criminals are brought to justice and tought charges are brought!