SAR / Winching Practice
 

Just a quick question for you SaR types. How often do you ask civies for help with say winching practice or similar?
The reason I ask is a friend of mine was sailing in the Solent at the weekend and the coastguard chopper circled overhead a couple of times and then radio'ed up and asked if they could practice a high wire transfer to his yacht.
Of course he was thrilled and they proceeded to winch a guy down for a cup of tea and a sandwich.
I've seen the video and it looks pretty hairy stuff. Wouldn't want to get too close to the rocking 83' masts in a stiff breeze. Nice job boys!
Is this a common occurance or was he really lucky?
D.

Leemind,

I dont know what goes on in the UK, but certinaly here in Australia, that kind of training is usually a planned event, and I'd be surprised if any of our Rescue Operators would pluck some yacht from the ocean and decide to training with them. As you said its a very dangerous business and theres serious OH&S and liability implications.
Usually here, the rescue services all work together, both rotor and marine based.

Cheers

Gus

leemind - not an unusual occurence although it helps if you know the skipper is vaguely competent and won't stare at the winchman and wander off heading. We use a 'hi-line' which is a technical term for a bit of rope attached to the winch-hook at one end with the other either thrown, swung or dropped to the boat crew. It means that the winchman can be winched out away from the direct overhead of the boat cockpit and then puleed aboard by the crew. This means the pilot has a better view of the boat and thus better hover references and the helicopter is further away from the nasty big mast.
The standard procedure for a yacht is to get it on a close-hauled port tack and winch to the port quarter.

that looks like exactly what happened, so a text book "rescue" then!
very cool!

I am not sure those who does this every day would agree this is very dangerous business. I would think that statistics show that other types of helicopter operations are far more prone to accidents than hoisting ops. One reason may be that aircrew involved in maritime SAR normally get a lot of practice.

Sorry, I should clarify. I was referrring to winching (or hoisting) from aboard a yacht that can be dangerous. With regard to getting caught up in mast cables etc. I wasnt referring to winching in general, and yes your right, the fact they these guys practice it regularly, helps ensure that when they do it for real in poor weather conditions, on high seas, that its a safe as they can make it.

Regards

Gus

Isn’t it time we put the sacred cow to rest that says that only military SAR pilots should rescue downed military pilots? Along with all the others like: no women air force pilots, only regular full-time serving QFIs can instruct air force student pilots, and women can’t be awarded the Military Cross.

Shortshaft, I think you missed our point in here. We werent referring specifically to military or civvie pilots, just helicopter winching in general from yachts in general.

As far as Im aware here, anyone can rescue a downed military pilot. RAAF down have SAR capability, but Im sure the pilot who is bobbing around in the Pacific Ocean wont "wave off" a civillian rescue helicopter that happens to be in the area, or a civillian vollunteer coastal patrol vessel.

Who cares who does the rescue operation as long as the pilot or whoever it is bobbing around in the ocean gets picked up!

Cheers
Gus

T71/Gus.

Thanks, you are correct. I agree entirely!

I think I got my threads in a tangle and that this comment was more appropriate to the ‘End of Military SAR’ discussion.

SH

Sorry fellas bit it would have to be a bloody big yacht if I was going to do a hi-line to it.

I am of the opinion that the survivors TRY and get into a liferaft and winch out from there to get away from the mast, boom, cables, rigging, etc. Failing that, get them to somehow tie to the yacht with a lifejacket on and get into the water - winch from there.

One question - how about a spinal patient (who can't move) that is on a yacht??? Interesting scenario!

As for flying over a yacht out of the blue and asking to winch from there??? I wouldn't do it but that is just me. It is a training mission and I suppose you are probably putting undue risk into the equation. :oh:

Oogle, I agree with you 100%. And I think thats pretty much how things are done here. Either jump into a liferaft or the water. Normally here, the rescue crewman will also jump into the water to assist you, but it does start getting hairy with all the clables and rigging about.
Cheers
Gus

OOgle and T71 - if the casualty is injured (the reason you are going to get them in the first place) then you are more likely to injure them further or lose them altogether trying to get them into a dinghy - try doing it in anything more than a 3 -4 foot swell and you will see what I mean.
The hi-line is a tried and tested technique and makes winching to yachts and other small vessels easier not more difficult.
The only way of getting a spinal injury off a yacht at sea would be to let the winchman prep and immobilise the cas and then do a stretcher lift out of the overhead with the boat crew controlling the hi-line to prevent a big swing.

Crab

I agree that the hi-line technique is a good way of getting someone off a boat but when I have had to winch off a yacht, it has been as a last resort (ie. survivor not wanting to jump into the water).

For my liking, yachts and helicopter winch ops don't mix.

I have only used the hi-line for stretcher winches from vessels. Personnel recovery, I believe, is easier accomplished by paying out cable and the aircraft moving back away from the liferaft/dinghy so that the downwash doesn't hinder your down-the-wire man (and survivor). This gives the pilot reference on the target.

I suppose there are many ways to skin a cat!;)

I can vouch for the safety of winching to yachts, both large and small and under sail or power.

The routine is that a yacht is chosen randomly whilst airborne and the radio frequency displayed on a board

If they are willing, a thorough brief is passed and the exercise carried out. There are various safeguards to protect those on the yacht. E.g. Engine failure must not endanger the yacht, downwash must be just clear of the sail.

During the exercise a careful eye is kept on the yacht crews actions for obvious reasons.

It has been done for decades and it has come in very handy on numerous occasions and saved more than a few necks.

As most SAR guys and gals know, it is just another technique that may be appropriate in some circumstances and realistic training has to take place for the calls that the unit is likely to get.

Cheers

Press

I have been watching the way this topic has been going and it seems there are a lot of different views coming from different parts of the world.
Very understandable, but down under it might be best practice to put someone in the water and winch from the wet position, nicer temp of water therefore less chance the patient your going out to is not suffering from hypothemia already!!! But watch for SHARKS
This is why the UK and Irish lads both CG/RN/RAF are so happy with using hi-line technique properly to winch to yacht's, obviously all the crew have to be happy with the yachts crew and there knowledge of the hi-line but other than that its a perfect training opertunity and not something SAR crews get to do very often in the training enviroment, we are always looking for yachts on port tack even if its do hover over them its great training and if you can go live winching its like a mastercard 'priceless':ok:

Why put someone in the water when you don't have to?


There are numerous ways to winch from a Yacht and what method you choose relates to the capabilities of the helicopter and crew and the conditions of the day. Putting the casualty in a dinghy or even winching from the water as a last ditched scenario are a couple of options that would be considered.


However, winching from a Yacht is tricky but no more dangerous than winching from some other types of vessel. There are several ways of accomplishing this (I can think of at least three completely different methods for UK RAF SAR). It is a skill that may (and has in the past) been required and, therefore, we train for it. If we are on a training sortie and see a type of deck we haven't practised for a while we will call them up on the radio and ask the skipper's permission. I have only ever had one say no in 4 years; they are usually keen as they know the better we are, the more likely we are to be able to help them if their vessel gets into difficulty.

I agree with you SAR bloke.

In the "good old days" it was not unknown for the winchman to reappear with a slab of tinnies as a grateful gesture from the ship's crew:ok:

This would, of course, now be taxed as a benefit in kind by that nice Mr Brown:mad:

HF

Boats of opportunity are definetely the way ahead as far as training goes. Even if the skipper or captain is informed over the radio if you are just in the hover next to them, carrying out a recce and not going live on it. They are always more than happy to play along and very rarely decline. After all, it may be them you are called out to one day.
When asked if they are familiar with the hi-line transfer technique on the radio, and they are.... brilliant! Time to give them some more practice. If not, time to teach them, if you can get the winchman down on the deck via normal transfer.
Sometimes, if you refer the hi-line technique as a steadying line method, most will get the general idea.
In the RN, us guys get bogged down doing the same old Pas Boat day in, day out. Same s**t, different day, every day. Not so good as far as "playing the field" goes and getting a wide range of opportunity training. We are at Falmouth for goodness sake! Plenty to choose from, including one of the worlds busiest shipping lanes on our doorstep.:ugh:

All The Time
 

The Coastguard helicopters do it all the time. Fly off, find a boat (could be a yacht, could be a ferry, tanker etc.), call them up and play.

Has an advantage of training the yachts/small boat owners in what to expect. Every one they play with then tells his story to 5 others, word gets around.

The practice of picking leisure craft at random to train with is probably frowned on by other country's authorities. I am not sure the military SAR are allowed to do it either.

UK Mil SAR are!