Worrying behaviour
 

I find it amusing the number of requests for W&B programs.

As Captains or Co-Pilots of these aircraft, it would be more than reasonable to expect that you would have the knowledge to calculate the W&B of your aircraft.

With even just a basic understanding of MS Excel, you should then be able to create your own W&B calculator.

So all these people looking for W&B programs, how are you currently calculating the W&B?? or is this fundamental aspect of planning not being completed.

Does this sound harsh, or is this a reasonable assumption. What is next??? A fuel calculator???

I can't speak for others, but I've used computer w&b programs to explore loading configurations, and experiment with different loads to see what will happen when I move something from here to there. It's easy on a computer, and lets me learn where and when I need to be careful with an actual calculation. I have both Palm and PC programs, and while I seldom, if ever, use them for actual calculations, they can show worst-case scenarios, and whether I'm likely to have a problem. Having programs for aircraft that I don't even fly is also instructive. When it comes to calculating the actual weight and balance of the aircraft I'm about to pull pitch in, I use the approved method of calculation, but it's educational to play with other calculations while I'm not flying.

That's why I developed this one for the R22 and this one for the R44. I also have one for the Mariner. Where I trained, most students didn't do W&B except before cross country flights or check rides, even though we had several instructors pushing 220+. And the W&B data sheets the school provided had some problems (like somebody changing the arm or moment in the template). Since I made a habit of doing W&B before every flight, it made sense to make the spreadsheets, and then figured out that they could be pretty useful learning tools--like, which helicopter can I fly in with my 235 lb instructor...?

Totally agree with you Gomer Pylot. The electronic W&B are a very useful and time saving tool. I use them for every flight.

My criticism is directed to the almost desperate requests for these tools, which makes these tools seem like some sort of Holy Grail.

My point is that pilots should be able to do these for themselves. All that is needed is a basic knowledge of Excel or other spreadsheet program.

If I download one of these programs listed on the thread, how do I know it is correct and/or accurate? I am sure that more than a few will probably just download the program and start plugging away with figures for their flight and probably not even check correct BEW, arms and moments specific for their aircraft.

pd2

I use my excel w&b for every flight as a timesaver. I made it myself using the real figures from the Schweizer I use it for.

Of course do I check its accuracy by handcalculating it regularly. I am required by the regulations governing Aerial Work, to check my spreadsheet at regular intervals to confirm it is working properly.

I had not given it a thought that someone would be so stu... to just download a w&b spredsheet and start using it without confirming its accuracy and adapting it to his own aircraft. Good pointer :ok:

So pd2, where's the fuel calulator you were talking about? :cool:

Heli-Ice,

I am currently designing the fuel calculator. It will revolutionise the aviation industry. Once specific data is entered by the user it will calculate the following:

* Fuel Type
* Aircraft Fuel Burn Rate
* Capacity of Tank(s)
* Range for a given quantity of fuel
* Endurance
* Refuel Quantity at next destination.
* Holding, Variable and Fixed Reserves

There is very little input required from the user. The user needs to input the following information for the caculator to work.

* Fuel Type
* Aircraft Fuel Burn Rate
* Capacity of Tank(s)
* Range for a given quantity of fuel
* Endurance
* Refuel Quantity at next destination
* Holding, Variable and Fixed Reserves

If pilots are unsure of the data for their aircraft, some of the data is available from the Flight Manual.

If you have any suggestions to improve the spreadsheet, let me know so I an incorporate the changes.
:hmm:

pd2

I see, it is the simple type you are working on. I already love it.

Improvements you ask? Can you make only one window for the data input? My ten thumbs and hand-eye-brain coordination is terrible. :)

Well I need to create the foundation for the program initially. This is a laborious process, and I may need to call on a friend to check the mathematical equations. Once I have that all set up and working correctly, I can modify it to calculate almost anything. So it is slow going now.

I am currently toying with the idea of creating a module to calculate the varying fuel burn rates during a climb or descent, or with changes in density altitudes. I know what you are thinking... this guy lives in the clouds, but I believe it is possible.

What do you think? Is this being over optimistic?

Over optimistic? Naahhhh... Beeing an optimistic is what keeps you in this business. Some guys ahead of us believed they could build a thing called helicopter and that it would fly!?! and thats what they did.

How about adding a module that calculates heli pilot calorie burn in various circumstances? It would give him some idea about the minimum calories he has to aquire the following night at the bar.

Just remember when you get all tangled up in the math lab tests that 2+2 doesn't allways equal four in this business.

hmmmm... what a brilliant idea.

Not only can I measure the metabolic calorie burn, but if we add in the nett fluid of fluid pee'd and sweated and the fluid intake during the flight, not only can I provide an even more precise fuel consumption rate, I can also link this to the W&B module for CofG movements during the flight.

Brilliant!!!:D

Of course version 2 of the program will allow for not only pee and sweat, but No 2's.

You got yourself a business plan there man.

Since I am extremely fair, I'll settle for 10% of net profits, or a nice little house by a frozen lake somewhere in Canada, for my great advice and idealogy in this project.

Over and out.

There is currently available a product that does (most of) this automatically in-flight using a fuel flow transducer installed in the acft fuel system: The Shadin MiniFlo/MicroFlo series. Yes, more expensive than a PDA type solution, but certified and works quite nicely (from personal experience). ;)

Much of my flying is quite predictable as far as loading is concerned, so I have made up several pro forma W&B charts which cover the most common loading configurations for my acft. Using these, it is easy to see graphically how slight variations from these standard configurations will affect W&B. For significant departures from standard, a careful new calculatiion is in order. I have laminated these in plastic and carry them in the acft. Obviously not as useful for an operator with little standard pattern to loading.

helicopter apps
 

anybody have good apps for helicopters,like weight and balance

Tadah!!!!

iwizwheel

I have just purchased this iBal application for the iPhone ($10) and find it quite good. It was not previously available for the B407, so I contacted the company and they agreed to make it available for the 407 if I supplied the needed W&B info. The currently available first release doesnt yet support the 5250 GW or aux fuel options, but this is said to be coming in the next release. If one already has an iPhone, a great deal at $10! :ok:

Ibal -- major drawback is YOU have to supply the fuel distribution between the tanks. Doesn't work it out for you. And £5.99??

Pilot Whiz -- free and let's your play around with the useful load.

Really? I have only played with this for an hour or so, but cant see how one might do this with the B407 fuel system. iBal does show the most fwd, most aft, and zero fuel CG's on the 407. Does this apply to types other than the 407? So far it gives equivalent results to the examples in the RFM. :confused:

iphone apps
 

any of ye have good apps for helicopters like weight and balance would be good cheers

try iBal
 

try iBal it only has R44,R22, 350 and jet ranger, but it works fine

iBal also has: Hughes 300, 206L, B407, EC 120 and three variants of AS350. :ok:

Wing X aviation wx for iPhone and Blackberry is pretty amazing. See Hilton Software LLC . However, AFAIK, only suitable for U.S. operators. :ok:

LogTen Pro (electronic logbook and flight/duty monitor) is very good.

PilotWhizz is useful for conversions, though the W&B component is not great for helicopters.

For the US, Foreflight is good for Wx and flight planning (has a link to duats), can e-file flight plans. (Wish you could activate/cancel them in it though!)

Also useful is "Charts" - all US charts, PilotFAR and PilotAIM, once again, for US folks...

I second LogTen Pro.

I once thought so too, and purchased ForeFlight several months ago. I subsequently found WingX and it does much, much more for only a few dollars more. IMHO, WingX is the one to buy.

I find the NOTAM's app works well, especially the overlay onto Google maps.

Logten Pro looks very good but you need a Mac to run it. I checked with them.

Must get a Mac me thinks.

Caution Panel
 

EuroSafety has created a free iPhone/iPod caution panel app for the AS350B2 to stay proficient with airframe emergency procedures.

More airframes to come!

Let us know what you think!

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/isafety/id380233909?mt=8&uo=4" target="itunes_store">iSafety - EuroSafety

Hey Glen:

Must be a mac/pc, Bell/Eurocopter, thing...... Most of us "Bell" pilots have "Droids" not "I-phones" ----far superior.... ;)

You going to make a Droid app too?

I would say EXCELLENT at twice the price!

App
 

Gordy, we are looking into doing a Droid app, the only problem is that there are many different screen sizes which would require around 60 different variations of every image. Once a model becomes "the Droid phone" we will jump on it!

Not to be pedantic, but we need an Android-based app.

In my case, preferably in a resolution suited to the Motorola Droid.


:8

Hedge

I am using W & B charts and my company schedule, pilot & driver logs etc on my droid. They are excel programs, just load them into google docs and run them that way on a dolphin browser. The only problem is that the form will be "un-locked" and after entering data you need to refresh.

[email protected], the Eurosafety app thread was just move to here.....


http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/213...es-pdas-4.html

ESI.

Hi and Yes that's where i first saw it and started thinking about it but in throwing a little project together I started thinking about EFIS type CAP panels hence my look at the EC135 and my post.. I've looked at Eurosafety and you have some pretty good interactive training materials which I've mentioned in other places.

When I saw your app and the comments re the droid, i just started playing with it and you can see my comments re web apps which I personally believe are just more flexible and perhaps quicker to put together. I have quite a few years in the business as an operator and an IT background, hence my interest in marrying the two. I've always been of the opinion, that whilst we do fairly well in the front office (aka cockpit ref efis etc), we do poorly in our industry in the back office (ref admin etc). I have looked at Iphone app development and believed it to be too narrow a base if you consider symbian, windows mobile, droid; but one common thread is the continued effort of smart phone, and now soon to be tablet (Ipadesque) manufacturers to improve the web experience. Without doubt html 5 will only improve this experience. This lead me to look at how quickly a more flexible web app approach could be used to overcome some issues faced when dealing with so many different types of smart phones etc.

Feel free to comment, or pm me on anything.

EuroSafety App
 

It is a interesting method, and a good solution to the various problems dealing with different phone models. We looked at doing it that way but still ran into the problem with screen sizes. The images stretched on phones that had the various size screens. Also the app is then only available when the internet is available and it is slow.

The technically advanced folks (which helicopter pilots generally are) are migrating to the Apple platform. The iPhone/iPod syncs with this platform smoothly. The only road block is Verizon. But Verizon will have the iPhone next June on the LTE network.

But at the end of the day the most important thing is that pilots get the information needed to operation their helicopter safely and what ever method that is we are a fan of.

Have been using iBal and WingX on the iPhone for several months. Just took delivery of a new 407 with the PSE PMA8000BT audio panel with integrated bluetooth capability. What an amazing combination. The iPhone does weight & bal, flight planning, NEXRAD wx, METARS, TFR's, airport facilities and much more and the iPhone works beautifully through the headset on the ground and in flight (emergencies only of course). And, if you have music on your iPhone, this will link via bluetooth to the intercom for pax (ands pilot if desired) entertainment. Best of all, no wires. Highly recommended, but some of this works only in the U.S.

ESI - Comments appreciated and well noted.

Agreed that at some point tables have to be loaded, but with mainly textual data the whole thing can be loaded at aircraft selection time which is not too bad. With respect to the graphics and screen sizes, you have to wonder if users would really care, once the general representation of the layout was true and the training information provided was accurate.

Another approach might be hybrid whereby tables are loaded and stored on the device - unlike foreflight type apps etc, ( the database would not need to be updated too often as cockpit procedures don't change nearly as often as AFD's etc, so you get the benefit of a web based app, but also the ability to use offline.

From posts like B407 below, it is only a matter of time before we see more and more use of iphone/ipad type devices in the cockpit (far less expensive than any other EFB options).

All good stuff, no matter which side of the equation you're on (unless of course you continue to stubbornly hold out for sales of your $3-10k EFB devices).

ESI
 

I agree that the most important thing is that the information gets out there. I believe you are right that sooner or later the iPad will make its way into the cockpit. It will give us pilots many of the resources that are now more difficult to consult. Keep up the good work.

Doodle Jump - iPhone 4
 

I'm sure everyone has now downloaded this ap onto their phones ... BUT, does anyone know what type of helicopter is being used at under 2,000 ft ?

Sorry don't do games.