The Civil-way
 

Hi Guys,

I Completed my PPL in september, since then I haven't flown much due to the fact that I'm working my butt off to safe up for the CPL course and I want to make every hour count. I know it's hard landing your first pilot job, but now, all I hear is that all the jobs go to ex-militairy pilots and that it is nearly impossible for a civil-pilot to find a job.

To every one who traveled the civil-way, please some support, this is an SOS :)

Also, any recommendation for good flight schools...

Thanks

P.S. what a great forum this is

Re: The Civil-way
 

Not all jobs go to ex-miltary pilots! I know of two guys who came up the hard way with jobs in Bristol/Gloucester, and one is even a Chief Pilot. There's another in Cornwall flying a 109 and another on the North Sea flying S61 with around 600 hours. There are many others.

It may be true that military pilots have the emergencies right on the button, and that their training is a known quantity, but they are not necessarily commercially minded and need considerable orientation.

The best advice I can give is get to know people. Phone calls and sending resumes are almost completely ineffective. Nothing beats being civil and courteous with a smile on your face. I know one guy in Canaa who was always helping people file flight plans and clean helicopters - guess who got a job when a new company started?

Phil

Re: The Civil-way
 

I don't know who told you that all jobs go to Military pilots, but I can assure you that in fact it is not the case. The proportion of Civil only pilots is Very high, though the ratio does vary depending on which area of the world you are looking at.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Military pilots get hired because they have the required hours. The turbine time is a plus, but not the determining factor. Recent military pilots seem to be oblivious to the power requirements of civilian machines, and seem to tend to hotdog, being used to vast amounts of engine and transmission power. Civilian chief pilots don't like that. In short, I don't think ex-military pilots have an inside track at all, all other factors being equal. Get the time, and you should get a job. OTOH, if you have 500 hours and the ex-mil guy has 5000, he's likely to be hired before you. In this industry, time is money.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Paco,

Where is it written the "military pilots have the emergencies right on the button?

My experience has been most large organizations like the military that are concerned with standardization oft times ignore "concepts" over "ritual" meaning they grab the checklist when the red lights and horns come on and skip over the "fly and think" part of the drills.

I would rather the pilot think his way through a problem rather than try to do a correlation exercise between the gongs and lights and a printed page.

Vortex,

Keep motivated...you have every bit the opportunity the military guys do...put your best foot forward...show you are willing to learn, work hard, and represent yourself and your employer well....and you will get on just fine. Your advantage is you will have fewer bad habits to break than some of the guys that have been at it a while.

There is a growing shortage of pilots and the future looks bright for young folks that are seeking a career in aviation.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Off topic:

Especially from the American Guys I hear the term "work hard" a lot.
I never actually understood what exactly is meant by that, since it seems to be used with emphasis.

Cheers

Work Hard
 

1. Show up before your lesson is supposed to start and have the aircraft preflighted and cleaned.

2. Show up at times other than when you are training to watch other students. I am learning A LOT by this.

3. Study, study, study. Even information that your instructor doesn't tell you to read. Of course, I count reading PPRUNE as studying. :)

4. Be serious in your flying, making every hour count. If I get sloppy with something (and at my stage almost everything needs work) I work on that maneuver until it looks good. Very good.

I know these sound like the basics and that everyone does them. Except that not everyone does them. I run across a lot of fellow students that show up for their lessons late, then complain that the aircraft isn't preflighted for them and that they don't get to fly for the full time they booked, etc. i.e. they treat it like it's a high school class as if it's the instructor's job to force them to learn what they need to know.

The funny thing is that it's not "working hard" at all. I enjoy absolutely every minute of reading, studying, cleaning the windscreen and especially the flying. Sounds goofy, I know, but I toil in the paper fields of insurance all day so it doesn't take much to excite me.

Re: The Civil-way
 

At my present company its about a 50/50 mix of Civil / Military trained pilots. We are short by at least 8 pilots and we are a small company. I got this job by sending a resume and making a phone call or two. You should be able to find employment with a little bit of time under your belt.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Vortex,

Looking at your profile, are you expecting to look for a job in Belgium as the local situation will be the over-riding factor. You will recieve opinion and replies from a whole host of countries and each of these will have their own set of circumstances.

It is probably fact that if the helicopter industry could recruit from a complete pool of 3000 hour pilots then it would not make any difference whether they are military or civil.

I am currently military but if I were recruiting for a company I would prefer a team to be made up from a cross section of both recruiting pools. This may be an indicator therefore that if you achieve what is required and convince an employer of your qualities and suitability for a role then you stand as much chance as any other pilot.

Sasless,

What you say of military training may be true of the US but not all military training has the same standards.

Regards,

HEDP

Re: The Civil-way
 

Thanks guys,

It seems that the situation in Belgium differs a bit from the rest of the world. Other than pipeline-control and scholing there is'nt much of a market down here I think, hence, not a lot of joboppertunaties, and almost all of the guys I know who got these jobs are ex-mil. But not to worry, I don't have a problem with relocating, starting at the bottom-end or doing someones dirty work. As long as there's flyin' to do I'm happy.

So Thanks guys, for taking away that bit of insecurety....

BTW, Has anyone heard something from "Thomas the Tankengine" or "Thomas the Tank", He used to be my instructor but moved to Scotland to do some twin work. I know he sometimes posted on this forum, but I haven't been able to find him through pprune search.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Hey GLS, you made me think back to the vast amounts of engine and transmission power I was used to in the UH-1, especially the B! Couldn't overtorque most times because the engine would top out and the rotor revs would start bleeding...:)

On a serious note, Vortex etc., having now done some time in both worlds, so to speak, personal attitude and willingness to work and learn are paramount, once the required hours are there.

Re: The Civil-way
 

Hi Vortex Frisbee

Check your private messages.

All the best TTTE.