Pointless whining.
 

I have to say that having read the whole of the rotorheads pages the underlying trend I pick up is that we all seem to think that we are worth more than we actually are. Come on guys.... it's not rocket science is it. We all have a skill that is reasonably in demand and keeps us in decent homes and clothes. Lets be thankful that most of us earn decent money and knuckle down to doing as professional a job as possible for our employers and passengers alike. Sorry but it's true guys.

The rotorheads page would not be the same without a little moaning. That's why the collective noun for the group is a whinge of pilots, a lost of navigators...any more?

Tips, foxtrot foxtrot!

Tips

The problem is that people like you who are content to just sit back and do nothing to improve their lot drag the rest of us down with you. So you carry on enjoying your nice little life and let the rest of us drag the industry up to where it should be.

Unfortunately, you will probably also benefit from our collective struggle (!) to improve things having contributed nothing. As an industry, we are mocked by employers who think that they can walk all over us and that we will all be like you and accept it all and be happy. You must be management with your attitude. If you are, then you've no business in here.

Go and tell all the other people who are losing their jobs and conditions how happy you are. You'll make lots of new friends.

It would appear that maybe I have touched a nerve here. I am not management, just a professional pilot who wants a fair wage for a fair amount of my skilled time. Without wanting to get into a mud slinging match I do think that some people are perhaps not receiving renumeration inline with their skill level, but they are an exception. I have a huge amount of sympathy with anyone from any profession who does not recieve a fair wage, however I have little time for people constantly whining at their lot. If it really is that bad move professions or move up in this one if ones abilities allow it.

Leading edge- What a pleasnt surprise to hear the cynical appoach to commonsense.

Tips- you're obviously in honeymooon phase!
Call again a few years time!

Hi Chip (on shoulder??) Lite. My honeymoon has thus lasted 11 years and the situation is still ok. I would refer you back to my previous comments about the fact that we are not rockrt scientists merely reasonably skilled people in a particular industry. If people dont like it please feel free to get off your bacsides and do something else if you have the ability to do so.

Before anyone else says so .... ok I meant rocket.

TIPS,

You certainly seemed to have stirred the hornet’s nest. I used to have a friend in my company who said very similar things to you; they made him redundant without a second thought

Certainly, on the North Sea, the salaries and conditions of employment have deteriorated markedly over the last seven or eight years and the employers seem not to care too much whether you have a job or not, as long as they keep theirs. After all, there is always someone cheaper that can be trained to do it if necessary.

I hope it doesn’t happen to you!

Hey guys ....

Life is what you make it, the job is just a small part of your life.

If you don't believe me, bury a few aircrew and then re-assess your priorities.

I love, hate, despise and respect my employer ..... every single day, but I ain't complaining.

If your lot is not good enough for you .. carry on fighting. Good luck. I will hug my wife and kids every night I get home.

Let's get this straight,

in civil aviation we get paid by pax numbers/hull size. So, flying a 18 seat helicopter we should get low turbo prop scales. But we actually get low jet scales. Shurly shum mishtake.

Being the Devil's advocate here, £38,000 for a F/O and £45,000 for a captain who is home every night is not too bad in the cosmic scale of things. Ask the man on the Clapham omnibus.

On the other hand, things have not changed a great deal in recent years and inflation continues regardless. Also, companies sack pilots after 25 years and re-employ them on £1200 pm less to do the same job.

So all is not as it might seem. Take your pick and like it or lump it.

Happiness is Vr at Lagos.

------------------

212man

I would love to know who you work for with wages like that !!!

Ack2main,
how many UK companies operate the 212? elimentary my dear Watson.

They were figures for a top end North Sea Co, and a Junior Capt. Senior Captains with bits on top earn £ 60,000+. That's why they are being sacked. So the basic tennant of the thread rings true.

Salaries are a very emotive issue, talk to engineers! It's a fact that a junior FO in an IT outfit earns as much as a North Sea Captain, on the other hand a Dash 8/F50 Captain working similar duties earns a bit less. Which is correct?

Personally I'm in favour of the best salary available, with some degree of security and hope of a future.

Happiness is Vr at Lagos.

PS,Ack2, I see you're in Norfolk, so am I. Nigeria based, but living in Norwich. E-mail me if you want more info.

[This message has been edited by 212man (edited 18 December 1999).]

Tips - refreshing viewpoint and one I have some sympathy with. It certainly rattled cages!

Although I think the offshore guys may have had a hard time recently they have lived high on the hog in the past. No one owes us a living..and it is a marketplace out there. That's what capitalism is all about. Its a shame that we are in a cyclic shrinking of the market at the moment since it does affect what I (we) can earn. But I remember 1986 (and 1976!) when any idiot could get a job at more than he was worth, and management (which I was in 1986)then had to hold their hands, wipe their arses and pick up after them.

As a driver again I look forward to the next turnaround.

As a military pilot the more I hear about helo flying in the real world the less I want to do it. Is it really that bad?

I know that I don't get a large wage and the detachments are a bugger, though not really in my line of work as a SAR boy, but the conditions seem(at least in an operating and job security sense)much better where I am.

Referring to an much earlier thread, 212man stated quite rightly that slaries are related to hull size.

This is an historical precedent, but why is it perpetuated???? Surely a slary related to the level of skill required to do the job, the !!!!iness thereof, etc., etc., should go into the equation?????

Food for thought?

I can't help but wonder if you have been in the business long enough to have experienced the dramatic changes in our compensation rates over the last quarter century. Even if what you say is fundamentally true, there is no doubt that the market forces which ultimately determine our compensation rates have deteriorated to say the least. In the mid seventies I was earning $100/hour as a contract pilot. Today, 25 years later the hourly contract rate for the same type of flying (bush work) remains roughly the same. Using the CPI inflation calculator, $100 in 1975 bought as much as $309 would in 1999. Or, if you prefer, today a contract bush pilot is earning 30% of what he would have earned in 1975 for the same type of work. Such a decline in inflation adjusted pay is surely catastrophic in any one's book. Legitimate reason for at least some discontent, woudn't you say?

Once again we are all drawn into a discussion regarding our worth to our employers, and it seems pretty much agreed that we have virtually none. If we dont like it we are cordially invited to seek employment elsewhere. "Market forces" seems to be the catchphrase of the day. The only market forces on the North Sea are the oil companies dictating to us the figures they will pay. Forget safety, forget professionalism, all the dear accountant want to see is the smallest price at the bottom of the bill. Wages have remained fairly static for some time, whilst the multi-BILLION dollar profits of the oil companies continue to soar. Is it unrealistic for a company to expect more than a 1% profit each year? The helio ops constitute circa 0.5-1% of the oil companies' transport costs, a very small drop in a very large ocean. As per usual it will take fatalities offshore before anything is re-assesed. Would it not make a pleasant change to see the 2 remaining helio ops dictate to the oil companies, or are they still the gutless lapdogs most people see them as.

Both OLOG/Bristow and CHC/Scotia will raise rates in the near future. CHC have a HUGE debt to service and OLOG/Bristow are losing money. Rates may go up but don't expect it to flow on to crew wages and conditions, it won't. Bristow have now recognised the union (BALPA) but it is BALPA who are lap dogs to the helicopter companies. There has been no action by crews because BALPA probably won't back them.

So the situation is that you've got lap dog helicopter companies in bed with a lap dog union and its the crews who continually get the baseball bat where it hurts.

I wonder if BALPA are really the best union to represent the NS pilots. After all, they've one NOTHING to improve their members' pay and conditions for many years.

So, basically, nothing will happen until market forces dictate that wages rise and conditions improve. I'm just glad that I'm not there any more. I'm not selfish, just very fortunate, and I whloeheartedly support the North Sea Pilots in their continuing strife.

Both OLOG/Bristow and CHC/Scotia will raise rates in the near future. CHC have a HUGE debt to service and OLOG/Bristow are losing money. Rates may go up but don't expect it to flow on to crew wages and conditions, it won't. Bristow have now recognised the union (BALPA) but it is BALPA who are lap dogs to the helicopter companies. There has been no action by crews because BALPA probably won't back them.

So the situation is that you've got lap dog helicopter companies in bed with a lap dog union and its the crews who continually get the baseball bat where it hurts.

I wonder if BALPA are really the best union to represent the NS pilots. After all, they've done NOTHING to improve their members' pay and conditions for many years.

So, basically, nothing will happen until market forces dictate that wages rise and conditions improve. I'm just glad that I'm not there any more. I'm not selfish, just very fortunate, and I whloeheartedly support the North Sea Pilots in their continuing strife.