single engine ops at night
 

this bloke down the pub was telling me the other day (so it must be true !) that since late 2001, it is now permissable to operate commercial flights in a single engine helicopter at night in the UK.

this sounded suspect to me as my understanding is that it has been prohibited for years unless classified as a training or private flight.

so my question is 1) is this true?, 2) if true, what is the source for this. 3) if true, what are the conditions i.e IFR instrumentation? IR rated pilot? yada yada yada

theres a p.s. to this, he was also telling me that you could now fly an N reg on a UK licence in the UK (I presume you couldn't before I dont know)

1) is this true ?, 2) if true what is the source for this 3) if true is this private only or commercially as well?

any other big things I may have missed?

well....

My understanding is you cant do public transport flights in single engine heli at night,

but I think you can carry internal cargo. although not much use!

Also, N reg thing - ive heard the same. MD 600 driver may be able to help you on this.

Quite the contrary, methinks. It is still twin only, and unless the helicopter has a functioning autopilot, twin pilot as well even for night VMC. (unless flying in accordance with "arrangements approved by the CAA")

These "arrangements" basically allow a bit of latitude if the autopilot is found to be unserviceable either just before departure or during a series of night sectors, allowing the planned task to be undertaken.

There are various ifs and buts but I guess the idea is so that you are not left embarrassed with a heli full of punters at night in a field, for example.

As for the CAA / FAA query...cant help on that, I'm afraid!

You may fly a N reg aircraft in UK with any class of UK licence provided that you have a FAA validation certificate. This will normally give you only PRIVATE privileges, whatever class of Uk licence you hold. This is also the basis on which you may fly a N reg in USA. Of course, if you have a FAA licence, then no problems!
Apparently validations are hard to come by now, since 9/11.

My understanding is (and I don't have the books in front of me) is that single engine flights are permitted at night if they are A) Private and B) the Ac has two landing lights, one of which can rotate, plus flares which can be discharged in the event of an emergency (there is only one emergency I can think of in a single at night!!) plus the pilot has a night rating.

I seem to remember a press release a few years ago about a newspaper organisation who ferried thier papers to Scotland in a single engined fixed wing Ac who were descended on from a great height by the CAA because as a commercial flight the Ac should have been a twin?????

thanks for the responses guys,

it looks like nothing happened and he dreamed it all up down the pub (too much lime in his lager I'll bet)

Letsby:-

re private single ops eg training, R22's are typically used to do a night rating, which have a single landing light switch which turns on 2 bulbs right next to each other, but this are fixed both on the nose, at slightly different down angles.

so i think the rotating bit might be bogus, do you have a source?

The light kit is dependant on what was approved for the particular aircraft, it does not have to include a swivelling light but in some cases that is the only way that the CAA lighting requirements can be met ( It has something to do with being able to see th ground at around 400 feet and still being able to see it during the flare !, which is why the lights on the 22 are at 2 angles I would think.

And the flares are not a requirement , only if it was certified as part of the night kit( personally I could never understand the flares , either set fire to the grass before you get there or after youve bodged up the night time auto and fuel is everywhere they would float down and give a good ignition source LOL)

Could it be that in the UK one needs at least two to three engines. Its very dark and Night Air has No Lift.......

Bert,

One of the extra engines is to power all those extra lights we need!!

Generally, the "extra" lights requirement is for a steerable/azimuthing light OR flares. There are some special cases where those proposing lights convinced the Campaign AA that what was proposed was equivalent. So some R22/44s are fitted with 2 extra wide beam fixed lights to give them night certification. If you ever use them and the landing lights the alternator cannot cope, but it keeps the Feds happy!

(You also must have a gyro DI and an Artificial Horizon)

So what's the consensus?

Safe or unsafe?

Plank twin engine ocean crossings were considered unsafe for a very long time. Now we have ETOPS.
The PC12 is designed to reduce the number of fatal engine failures in relatively small commercial IFR operations.

Yes, I think that in future if a certain reliability can be proven, we'll see single engined helicopters flying IFR. The cost of training the pilot to operate them commercially might be prohibitive, though..
Meanwhile, I'm happy with my IFR twin which is underpowered anyway, so I keep my SE procedures well in mind..but at least it gives me options.

Bronx,

When you ask "safe or unsafe" you miss the whole point. Nothing is "safe." If you want "safe" stay in bed and wait for the dust mites to carry you off!

The question is always "Is it safe ENOUGH or is it not?" Earlier in this thread, Thomascoupling said that statistics told the story but he didn't believe them, nonetheless, it is in actual data that the story is told, and statistics are data!

Since we can see that even for singles, CFIT is the biggest accident cause (typically about 2 to 3 times more than engine failure). Therefore. it could be said that IFR/IMC flight prevents CFIT, because a large percentage of CFIT accidents occur when we duck under weather rather than bite the bullet and file and fly.

I think we could LOWER single engine accidents if we let them fly in IMC.

You always need to be careful in assessing statistics. Continuing Nick's train of thought, it is probably the case (certainly here in the UK) that twins will be much more likely to have autopilots, EFIS, even FMS-like devices. All of these are likely to reduce the sort of pilot error that gives rise to CFIT - but have nothing to do with the number of engines carried.

In places where hele Public Transport at night and IFR and overwater is required to be twin, I guess there is very little chance of persuading the regulators to "progress" to singles. However for non-public transport and, in particular IR training, I think there is a good case for allowing single engine ops.

Some strange repsonses here!
IFR in single engine helicopters is allowed in New Zealand as they do not differentiate between helicopters and aeroplanes, as in most countries they are after all aircraft. Two pilot S/E operations may be conducted as long as the aircraft has the required equipment for IFR and it meets the requirements for 2 pilot IFR. i.e. the required items may be reached and operated by each pilot and it is maintained as such etc.. S/E SP IFR may be conducted if the aircraft is equipped with an autopilot of which there is at least one certified I know of for AS350/355 and 407. SFIM PA 85 T31 for instance of which I think there is more than one fitted in NZ. The issue of course is the practicality of it all. If you get into IMC you need to be damn sure you can get out and there is the weight/payload range/cost issue. A second pilot weighs 80-90 kgs whereas the A/P is about 17. If you read the KIWI regs you can even operate SPIFR in a helicopter without an autopilot which the Bell 222 B/UT is certified and this may in fact be the case. The issue of IFR has nothing whatsoever to do with the number of engines. If it can be flown VFR it can be flown IFR if you have the necessary equipment. Now when you come to ask money for it from Joe Public that's a whole new story. Interestingly commercial SEIFR in the US does not differentiate between piston and turbine powerplants. A perfectly capable C208 was involved in a CFIT accident many years ago in New Zealand because it could not operate IFR under the regulations in force at the time because it had passengers in it. If it had been freight, that freight would have been delivered! What is an ETOPS airliner with one caged after all? How many AS 355's have become lawn darts in the UK due to ice?

In my humble opinion for IMC helicopter flying you need:

Auto Stabilisation
Practice
Anti Icing
Practice
Clear air below 500 feet if flying a single
Practice
More airfields with IF (GPS?) approach procedures (otherwise you might as well go by plane)
Did I mention practice?

two engines would be nice, but makes emergencies more complicated therefore requiring more Pilot CPU time that may not be available.

I'm surprised anti icing is not mentioned much in this thread. A decent anti icing system would be far more useful than another engine. How often can you get to MSA here in the UK in the winter and maintain positive temperature air? I suppose you need another engine to power a decent anti ice system.

The old Alton Towers LongRanger (then G-JLBI and letterly G-RASS) had a complete IFR fit, including Decca and autopilot. Another battery would have been a good idea, but I would have been quite happy to take it through Birmingham zone on the way to Battersea - it would certainly have been safer than trying to get down the motorway in bad weather.

I think it's a political thing more than anything else, similar to the old argument about s/e night flying. If it's dangerous, it should be banned completely. The fact that passengers are not present doesn't make the operation any safer.

I think s/e IFR could be allowed, on routes that avoid heavily builtup areas if need be, and with a reasonable cloudbase, but I see no real problem otherwise.

Phil

American Eurochopper some years ago got a one off cert for a AS350BA for IFR ops. Had 3 axis autopilot with nav coupling and a "fail safe " mode ( summat to do with actuator runaway If i recall correctly) dual navs coms and stdby gyro etc . It had an alternator running off the same power take off that the air conditioner used . I think in the end the market was not there . Are the BB's they use for training in the UK equippped for IFR conditions ?.

IFR B3
 

Australian Aerospace had an AS 350 B3 certified for IFR begining 2003 for a client in New Zealand.
:hmm:

This topic seems to have two threads in it. SE IFR and for some reason SP IFR. One needs an auto-pilot, the other doesn't. Where is the assumption it will be SP?

SP IFR/SE IFR
 

When I were a lad......

Australian Army used to (probably still does) fly Kiowa (B206) single pilot in IMC.

No SAS/Stab or auto anything but with force trim. Single AI/ADF/VOR/Alt/VSI/etc and backup compass in a way out of scan position.

Single VHF that had to be dialed up each change (no flip flop) and an ADF that was tuned, not selected to freq.

Looks a bit bl00dy silly now, but we did it quite a lot.

Oh, and we practised a fair bit. (I sweated a fair bit too!) ;)

Have the aircraft been updated, or the rules changed? (not subject to CAR etc, but under Army Flying Orders)