Andrewm, I would be getting your engineers to run through the mags and the starter vibrator to make sure it is all set up right. It could be as simple as running a bit of emery paper through the points on the starter vibrator cause they can be a bit finicky. They should start hot or cold with no trouble if they are set up right.

headsethair.....

we are talking about priming , not starting, right.... No one ever said anything about starting with the throttle open... common sense I would hope.... Though cracking the throttle just a little on a piston to help it start , has been known to work...

rb

cold starting
 

AndrewM you said that you were worried about damaging your battery and alternator. What about your stater motor. if its taking you over 10min to start i would say it wont be long till your starter motor is rooted.
Also if you worried about your battery try connecting the jumper leads before she goes flat.
As far as jump starting a 44 goes you are ment to pull a few circuit breakers first. check the manual that will tell you which ones.
Hopfully its not your machine that is reciving this early morning punishment.

Surely twisting the throttle to full open does just that, regardless of what the collective correlation cam is doing, full throttle is full throttle wherever the collective is.

I used to give it about 10-15 pumps of the throttle and then immediately hit the key. Then as you crank it very slowly creep the throttle open but be quick to close it again as soon as it fires.

GET ETHER.

Get engine running and then stabilise it before engaging clutch. Yeah yeah.... I know that the clutch should come on straight away. But just bleed it in like a H300 and don't let the engine stall.
Don't like that? Then sit there until summer.

I am with the Coyote, full throttle is full throttle.

What difference does lifting the collective do?

The accelerator pump works by throttle regardless of the collective position.

Coyote and Dzeroplus are right. The collective cam simply acts on the throttle butterfly, and as such the position of the lever is immaterial if priming using full throttle i.e full throttle can be used manually at all times regardless of where the lever is.

More worrying than cold starting is the lack of understanding of this basic principle which is becoming evident from some of the replies being posted.

Fly safely all

HEAD BOLT
pretty sure to get full throttle the collective needs to be up.
but we arnt looking for full throttle, you just need to pump some fuel into the manifold (3-5 pumps) and wait a little while for it to evaporate (as moosp said). but if its too cold for it to evaporate thats when you will have trouble.

R44 vs Bell JetRanger
 

Trying to get some information on how they stack up. I've got a few thousand hours in the TH-57 JetRanger but hopefully some of y'all with experience in both can tell me how they stack up. I know the Bell has a max gross of 3200 lbs and the R-44 tops out at 2400 lbs - any more comments on payload, range, speed?
Thanks.

For me it would only be the 206, it feels much easier, and with its turbine thingy rather than the old recip donkey, it sounds right as well,, but then thats me and my thoughts!
Peter R-B

I use the following on my Raven I (without primer)

- twist trottle as many times as you wish (5 - 10 times)
- using full collective (pumping then twisting) gives still extra fuel, since it gives extra pumping effect to the carburetor
- when it is cold (below 5° C), it is very hard to flood the carburetor, but don't try this at higher temperatures

- if the heli is protected from the wind I just have a 200 W infrared lamp on the airfilter below for 10-15 minutes, getting it to warm up a few degrees (probably putting the pan to 5-10 °C). This requires access to some form of electric supply. As said by others I avoid risk of contact with fuel or oil by placing the lamp at the side.

- Robinson confirmed me that in cold weather, first start, it is quite OK to wait a few more seconds until engine runs ok, before clutching. The strain on the system when stalling (or trying to avoiding it by reving) is much greater

Horses for courses.

For charter work, carrying two couples is the norm. In a 44, one of them stays behind, or, more likely, you don't get the job.

No boot is the biggest reason not to buy a 44.

charlie s charlie - you sure the 206BIII can cruise at 115kts? Mostly they tend to do between 100 to 110, right?

thanks.

Figure came straight off the Bell Textron Website, hence my large caveat at the bottom of that post!

r44,
3 pax, no bags, not under the seats if you are sensible.

bell 206,
4 pax, 4 sets of golf clubs in the boot. very sensible.

warren buffet. 100/110 kts max with a load generally although some seem to get along a bit quicker.

the r44 has all the good flight characterisics, especially with the hydraulics. the best machine in auto and the 540 sounds great.

no payload stuffs it.:(

I saw the R-44 II has an extra 100 pounds of payload - is that correct? (max gross of 2500 lbs vs 2400 lbs)

r44 rII
 

no thats not correct

The Raven II has a 100 lb increase in gross weight, but also a 64 lb increase in empty weight. So you get another 36lb of payload in the Raven II.

Being current on both types, (still prefer the 206) I can cruise the 44 Raven II at a comfortable 115kt. Where I am operating, I have had full fuel and pax in the 44 with some power to spare. The extra HP on the Raven II comes in REALLY handy.:ok:

Collective position will most definetly have an effect on throttle travel. 100% at flat pitch obviously uses less manifold pressure than in the flight position so the engine fuel/air demand is less. The butterfly opens further when the collective is raised to allow more intake(That's what correlation is). When the collective is full up the butterfly is full open unlike at flat pitch.Watch the throttle arm, wind it to full throttle at flat pitch and lift the collective and see what happens. At full collective the accelerator pump also has more travel so you WILL get more fuel for priming and because the accelerator pump is spring loaded it's a good idea to pause momentarily at full throttle to let it do it's thing.
The lack of understanding of something as simple as correlation is a bit scarey. Pilots should be made to learn this !!!! and retain it