i use the bose i find them to work well in a turbine not tried them in piston

the bose x [the slim ones ] are more comfortable than the original bose headsets

I use Bose. Expensive but good.
I've not tried them in piston helis, but can't see why there'd be a problem - except for not being able to hear the engine!

Heliport

I was looking at a device last week that may be ideal for this application. It is a lightweight headset originally designed for rapid intervention military and police teams,and the sound comes from a pair of slim flat transducers that fit against the bones in front of your ears. It is designed to be worn under a helmet, and it is fully waterproof and ruggedised. You hear the sound through bone conduction - the audio quality is excellent. Normally the user wants to hear what is going on around them, but for a high noise application such as a helicopter,you can just wear simple earplugs of whatever attenuation factor you desire to keep the background noise out The end result is far lighter and more comfortable than a full noise cancelling headset. The mic is a normal type on a goose neck in front of your mouth.

This device is not available for the aviation market yet, but it would not be too difficult to make one if the demand was there. It is also considerably cheaper than the top end ANR units made for the aviation market.

Would anybody be interested in being a guinea pig if I was to develop this product for helicopter use?

muffin,
The unit I'm on is doing a trial with an ANR helmet at the moment.I'd be very interested in your system if you were able to develope it.How can I get in touch with you ?

Hi folks,
I use a CFG Gallet helmet with a david clark H 60 build into it and I would not do without it anymore. :)

Not active noise reduction, but this seems to be a promising product. Communication & Ear Protection, Inc.

I have no affiliation to the company. I learned about this at an Aviation Life Support Equipment conference and am trying to get some at my unit.

'Active Noise Reduction' Info Wanted
 

I'm thinking of getting an ANR upgrade for my Gentex SPH5 helmet. Anyone have comments or suggestions? Do ANR systems live up to the advertising hype? Do you have it, like it; why?

Anyone have a good spot to put the power supply? I'm not that keen on having it lose in the cockpit, tethered to me by the cable. With the gusty winds we've been having lately (and my stellar flying skills...) it'd be a lethal object whipping around the cabin smacking my customers!

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Headsets, Inc in Amarillo, TX makes a good kit. The power supply is a box, which you can clip to anything - shoulder strap, seatbelt, or anywhere you want. I haven't used it in a helmet, but it's a drop-in for David Clark headsets, after you drill a hole in 1 dome for the power cord. http://www.headsetsinc.com/ Model M-03 is claimed to fit all military helmets.

Thanks Stan. Looks like Gentex doesn't do their own ANR now anyways. They're sending helments out to Headsets Inc.

Still looking for comments on performance, please!

And THANK YOU!!!

I've got a David Clark H 56 ANR. Great in fixed wing pistons/turbines and anything with more than three blades (AS 350 etc) But it's bloody awful in two bladed machines (Bell 205/206), you get a funny whooping sound in your ears much like pressure changes so I switch it off.
I know what you mean about the battery box hanging on the cable but I fly so many different machines it was the only option for me...thats life!

The HI kit worked well in a DC headset, but I couldn't stay with it. My ears are too big & stick out too much, so there wasn't enough room in the domes for them, & the pressure caused pain very soon. I can't use any production headset, I have to make my own. However, I don't recall having that trouble with the SPH5 oh those many years ago, I think there is more room inside the domes. Every ANR I've tried has the same problem.

The upside of the HI kit is that it's reasonably priced, & having to give it up didn't kill me financially. I am using the speakers from the kit, & the mikes can be reused for something, maybe.

Again, the noise cancelling worked well, flying in a 412 at the time.

Related to headsets rather than helmets, but you can find some useful information:

www.verticalflight.fsnet.co.uk

I have just tried the CEP system - it uses in-the-ear speakers like most Walkmen, but with foam inserts to really seal the ear. Absolutely amazing and to these tired ears it sounded twice as good as any other noise cancelling headset I've tried.
details from www.cep-usa.com
Cheaper than anything else as well.
Shawn

Dick,

I use a Sennheiser ANR in my Gentex SPH-5 and it works great. Because it's not aircraft-installed, I can carry it from ship to ship.

I was involved in some unofficial trials for it when I worked at Bell - we were concerned that it would interfere with hearing those 'odd' sounds that pilots use to figure out the world is about to go pear-shaped. It did not. As a matter of fact, it made any 'abnormal' noise stand out.

Some spark farmers wired up a power cable for me that plugs into the ship's Aux Power Cannon plug, which saves me carrying around batteries and such.

Awesome system, and I'd highly recommend it.

Thanks all for yer feedback & suggestions. I've decided to go for the Headsets Inc. ANR kit. Once I've installed it and flown a few days I'll post a review.

Shaun: The CEP looks really interesting, but too new for me. My cautious side requires staying with something better established, even if more expensive...

I have been using the CEP for about a year now. It is a great system. Flying with the doors off has never been quieter.

I went from the volume on the radio's being almost full on, flying with the doors off (using a SPH-5 helmet), to dang near off. And so far I have not had any problems with the system. My regular partner had one problem with the plug in his helmet that took less then five minutes to fix.

ANR Redux
 

Just got the ANR kit from Headsets Inc and installed it into the trusty Gentex. (Note: I'm a bit of a techy, and the installation wasn't as easy as they'd suggested. Perhaps some missing parts...)

Holy ****, what a difference!! The continual rumble/whine is replaced with a gentle hiss. The Comm volumes are down by 65%, the intercom is turned down to the bottom stop. Comm traffic is clearer and much easier to understand. Totally worthy piece of kit, I'd say.

Sorry to sound like an advert! Just thought I'd follow up on a post of a few months ago where I asked for feedback on ANR...

Cheers,

Dick,
 

How long does the battery last? Which heli are you flying, I am thinking of buying this product but I want to know if it will work well in the 206, 212

Thanks

I have one fitted to a H10-36 David Clark and it is worth every cent. I have used it in 206's, H500's and others with excellent reduction.

The Battery issue is an interesting one. A quality Duracell, Energizer or equivalent lasts about 25-30 flight hours. I have also used rechargeables but they only give around 5 hours life but worse is that they give no warning of going flat. I usually carry a spare in my pocket anyway, once you have ENR you cant stand the noise when the battery goes U/S.

Hope this helps

Bought a Peltor ANR once.........great for 2 minutes.....turn your head and the plug and cord that is attached to the bottom of one ear cup dislodges as it rubs against the top of your lifejacket.....great product development !!!!.... standing alone, the Peltor and the Switlik are great tools......put together....look elsewhere.......

Blender

Just installed it a couple of days ago, so only used it in the R44 so far. Based on current experience I expect good performance in other ships. Don't know (yet) firsthand how long the battery will last. Material from Headsets Inc. suggests about 20hrs. They also recommend better name batteries i.e. Duracell etc. and to avoid nicads for reasons already mentioned. I also carry a spare in my pocket. The racket inside my lid with the ANR off is now rather unpleasant!

Cheers,

Bought ANR upgrade for my helmet two years ago. Can't believe I flew all those years without. Mine is hard wired in my crop duster but when I spray in the Bell 47 I have a pocket battery pack. It will last a little over a day if I fly all day. Well worth the money.

best earseals
 

ok, it sounds like earplugs are a good idea but what about the earseals. ive got the gel ones but they dont seem to be that great. are foam or air ones better?

Best earseals I've used were Gel Filled, I think most manufacturers make them.
They conform to the contours of the head very well, and are comfortable over glasses or shades.

Our old DC headsets have gel seals, but the gel flows to the bottom of the seal. What's with that? Kinda like my saggy, middle aged gut!

The earseals I got with the ANR kit are gel also, but much stiffer. No flow with gravity. Kinda like... Oh, ferget that!

Active noise reduction Question
 

Hi everyone,

This is my first post... I have a quick question regarding ANR. I am considering installing ANR in my helmet. After a little research I found something a bit strange. The ANR system I am looking to buy is effective from 20 HZ to 800 HZ. However, I have read that most hearing damage occurs in that 700 HZ to 7000HZ range. Does that mean that.... Aside from a little more comfort, ANR does not actually help save your hearing. Certainly I am missing something.

Thanks

I think you've got it right; ANR protects in the low range, not the high end.

I bought the kit from Headsets Inc this summer and installed it in my Gentex helmet. There is a noticable reduction of noise with the unit turned on, but the biggest advantage is getting to turn down the comm and intercom volumes 25 - 50%. The comm is also *much* clearer.

The kit was missing a couple of minor parts, but I was able to cobble it together.

Correct, low frequency range only. MGB, certain engine noise ancilliaries are reduced thus making for a quieter working environment and a little way to supporting duty of care in the work place. However the baddy frequencies -engine whine, certain harmonics -these are what cause actual damage to the pilots hearing range (mid range I believe) and one can do very little about it at the mo'. I am told by the manufacturers that it is quite a technical feat trying to conquer the high freq problems

Super,

Here are a couple of past ANR threads:

ANR Redux

ANR Anyone

Cheers,

super72bb,

The reason why the ANR systems are only effective at the lower frequencies is locked in the principle that they employ. They sense the ambient noise, and its phase, and apply an exact inverse of that noise, the exact frequency and the opposite phase, to absorb the noise. Note with an ANR headset on, if you clap your hands, there is a distinct ringing for several seconds. That is the counter noise dying out as it fails to be reinforced.

As the frequency of the noise rises, the wave shape gets much more complex, and the calculations for the counter noise get nearly impossible (for today's computers).

None of the ANR's claim credit for helping reduce hearing loss, nor should they.

visit www.verticalflight.fsnet.co.uk

Consider the 'noise signature' of the aircraft you're flying when you make your decision.

What is the best ANR headset?
 

What is the difference between the DC 10-13XL and the Bose X?

I find both headsets very comfortable and don't know which one to go for.

Is there a difference in clearness of rt, longetivity, hard-wearness etc.

I would appreciate any information from people have experienced wearing these headsets.

J@mie :-)

I have used the Bose X for 3 years and while I have not flown with the D-C I did test this during a fairly careful comparison of various headsets I did in both a headset shop equipped with an aircraft noise source and in an actual plane on the ground.

My view is that the Bose is better overall. The total attenuation of both is the same. The D-C has more passive attenuation but a lot higher earcup pressure. The Bose appeared to reproduce speech more clearly.

While this applies to all headsets, with the Bose you especially need to avoid using glasses which are too thick at the point where they pass under the earcup.

I think the Bose is less sturdy than the D-C so it's OK if you use it yourself only and look after it. In particular, if you get the aircraft-powered version, the connectors are flimsy and break easily.

I think the Bose is far more comfortable although this may not be apparent on short trips.

haedsets
 

Don't know about ANRs but I'm a David Clark fan. One thing I learned the hard way...get the best hearing protection you can buy. It's tempting to think that there's no appreciable difference between a bunch of headsets all rated at 22, 23, or 24 decibels, but that one extra db protection makes a difference after a long day, or after a few hundred hours.
Also, I find David Clarks compatible with every aircraft type I've flown, and every other colleague pilot's (other type) headset.
However, like I said, never tried ANRs.

Thank U
 

thanks for that very useful advise!

Recommendations for a head-set
 

To all

Doing my ATPL (H) and (A) and need to buy a head-set for heli's, could anyone recommend a make, model and where the best place (cheapest;) ) is to get it from. Just one more thing, probably being a complete idiot, can you use a heli headset in fixed wing. I could do without having to buy two different and very expensive headsets.

Cheers All

Rotormad:}

rotormad,

You can use a f/w headset in helis if you get a converter bit to stick on the end of it. The only problem is there are two different types. I got one off ebay for about £12, only it turned out to be the wrong one; works for a few R22s in this country, but not most of them. I can't remember any details, except you want to get one with a silver coloured bit on the end, not the gold coloured bit, which is what I got.

I don't know if this makes much sense, but I'm sure someone who knows more about it than I do will post something which does.

not that i am an expert as i have only been flying for a year and a half. i use a david clark h10-13h with the gel seals and find really comfortable although not cheap. i have an adapter p/n 18253g-05 which splits into the two plugs for the flaps stuff and had no problems. www.davidclark.com will have a list of approved suppliers. they do have the adapters that go the other way but i dont know the part number. ( i am only flying fixed wing to get a cheaper instrument rating and not jumping the fence)
hope this helps.
helipilotnz

I normally use a headset I built myself, but David Clark makes excellent headsets, & has a great warranty & customer service. The H10-56 makes a good helicopter headset. I don't like the ENC headsets, because most of the noise from a helicopter is high-frequency, from the engine & transmission, & ENC headsets can't deal with this. They work fine for lower-frequency noise, but I don't think they're worth the extra money you'll pay. As others have noted, all you need is an adapter to convert the helicopter plug to a 2-plug configuration for fixed-wing, or vice-versa.

Tools of the Trade.....
 

If your going to be a constant user of the Head Set.....my only solid advice......don't buy cheap.

The rest is personal choice.

My experience has only been with the Alpha and Gentex helmet, David Clark, Bose, Peltor and Telex headsets.

The Peltor in my view for Helicopter folk stands out head and shoulders above the rest.....
But beware if wish to use the Peltor ANR and you are wearing a Mark 28, 50 or Switlik Jacket, as this Peltor has a solid long plug that protrudes vertically from the bottom of the earcup, and every time you turn your head the plug snags on the top of your jacket [perhaps my neck needs to grow longer!!]......Non ANR Peltors have the cable protruding from the side of the ear cup, which are fine with your jacket.

David Clarke has been around for years, and generally have a good reputation, their units are a little heavier but solid and robust.

If your rich.....go and try a Bose....US$1000 if you shop around.....but excellent performer, and fully expect to have it stolen???....the ANR is excellent.

There is a difference between ANR and ordinary headsets.......it is noticable when you turn the ANR system off.........a set of ear plugs under a good headset is also good....so ANR or not is personal choice.

If your swapping between High and Low impedence radio systems, [eg B412 - B206] either have two mics or a dual impedence system in your headset or helmet....there are kits that are commercially available as a retro fit....if you drop a case of beer on your Techs bench, he should be able to install it for you.

Using a non helicopter headset in a helicopter is another compromise best avoided.....non standard plugs and non coil leads are a hassle.....also different NRR.

Yes there are "Splitter Cables" available that will take a Helicoptor U174/U plug to match the dual plug aeroplane system, and a different "Splitter Cable" to take the Aeroplane dual sytem back to the Helicopter U174/U [go to the accessories page of the David Clarke web page for more info]

Buy a High Quality Headset as you start your first job, and it will serve you faithfully for years and tears.