Lappos:

You sound like my father, Guilty as charged. I suspect I would be labled by you as a card carrying crumb handler although my focus in on the whole bakery.

Interesting though, I come from a family of engineers and scientists who make your argument. The question of course is at what level do you stop making things and become a money shuffler. Take for example Mr. Borgman, who sat on ASU's engineering board with my father in the 90's, and as you know was President of a division of MD/Boeing and was President of Sikorsky. Is he a crumb handler/money shuffler as the President of Sikorsky or someone who makes stuff? At what point do you quit making stuff and become a shuffler, can you go back once you go to the dark side? (this reminds me of the joke about the French Bridge Builder)

If an executive engineers a turnaround at MD, is he a maker of things or is he simply an asset shuffler? If he comes from an engineering background he has made something but if he comes from a finance or accounting background he simply "shuffled" things?

I am not convinced that Bill Gates' day and daily contributions are not virtually similar to Warren Buffets'. At that level in a large company, I am not certain how you distinguish between a CEO who is a shuffler versus a CEO who is a maker.

Although certainly not healthy for the long-term of the US economy, I would argue in my lifetime the shufflers have learned to end up with more of the cake than the makers.

I suggest dueling welders at dawn.

diethelm,

You do make a valid pont, as well. The difference might be that a fellow who was once a baker has at least the memory of what a cake smelled like! Those bean counters use dry terms to describe what they want in return from the companies, regardless of what they do.

I can say this, Dean Borgman is one hell of an engineer, as is Steve Finger, and as is Richard Case (that Westland guy!)

I once said at a Managenment training course that demanding a percent rate of return, and governing all decisons on that is like training a good football team to win more games by having them stand on the field and stare at the scoreboard. Those crumb counters sometimes forget that it is running, blocking and tackling that wins our games, not scorekeeping.

Now come on Mr. Lappos, Is Mr. Borgman a shuffler or a Maker...........