Bambi Buckets vs Belly Tanks
 

Many of you probably have preferences of one over the other. Your thoughts and ideas on the pros and cons would be of interest.

Belly tanks are often a PITA, with added weight, complexity and slower fill rate. BUT, they excel if you have a shallow fill area, say <2 feet.

Bambi's bad points are the neccesity to have > 2 feet of water (or more for larger buckets), possible reduced cruise on long transits, and stowage during positioning flights. Good points are simplicity, versatility, low weight penalty and ease of use.

But don't bother trying to convince NRE, they know what's best for all of us.....

Hey John,

Reading between the lines have NRE come out with a new policy banning bambi's or don't you have a belly tank????. I thought the problem with foam contamination from S**safoam had been fixed by putting the foam tank and shutoff in the cabin so Bambi's were OK again.

Syd.

NRE will only accept tanks for contract a/c. Sacksafoam II & III are cabin units (I have a III )and contamination isn't a problem, plus you can carry enough foam to keep going for more than 4 drops!

I flew a contract that required both (Western US). We sat on stand-by with the tank attached and would launch on initial attacks with it. There weren't many natural water sources around so we would rendezvous with a water-tender and ground fill with a hose. The tank worked well for the PJ or grass fires in that area. It also had a really good foam delivery system. To use a Bambi bucket in that situation we would have had to have waited for the water tender to fill a pumpkin first and then dipped from it, delaying us by 20-30 minutes. Here the tank was great.
When we got up into the taller fuels, I preferred to switch to the bucket on a 50' or 100' line. You didn't have to, it just felt better for me. The Bucket allows you to steer the drop without having to steer the entire aircraft. The Bambi bucket was much better for spot drops too. Doing a spot drop with the tank was tricky. If you got low enough to be effective, you stirred up the fire with your downwash. If you got high enough to dissipate the downwash, the drop would atomize into spray and become ineffective.
I'm guessing that two pilots, one flying a tank and the other a bucket and each equally proficient in his own could do an equal job. The above is just my own opinion.
However, given the choice, I would take the Bambi Bucket. If not for any other reason, then because it was more fun.

Bambi Bucket Spin
 

Anyone had problems with Bambi buckets spinning when accelerating while empty. Have 2 identical buckets and one flies great... the other not so great. We have alleviated most of the problem with extra weights on the front but am interested to hear if others have had similiar problems and what there fix was.

Cheers

Garry M

Are they on long-lines? Are they on different long-lines with one twisting and one not. Whichever longline is working properly holds the solution.

Anti-rotation lines have a pre-twist in them and get tangled up like crazy as the twist comes out. As the bucket is not prone to rotating on its own, it is OK to really use any kind of acceptable long line (ie: not necessarily anti-rotation line).

Kevlar or Plasma lines will eliminate the problem entirely - check Can-Am out . The only other solution is a swivel above the control head. If you want to check it out, just watch the K-Max's! ;)

How are those 214's doing anyway, Garry?

Thanks Cyclic

Both machines have the same Hampajen lines (Not sure of spelling!) that are now so popular in Oz. Have used different lengths 50, 100 and 150ft and haven't noticed any difference in the propensity to spin. Will keep playing with different things but suspect that it may be a slight difference in the cut of the bucket.
Both 214's are going well. Have done over 600 hrs in them now with only minor hiccups. Like all machines if you treat them right they go great. Its a shame that a couple of dodgy US operators of yester year have given the things such a bad name. Theres no doubt that in the conditions prevalent in Oz they are almost untouchable performance wise.

Garry,

have you checked that the M straps are all exactly equal in length? Also the check the spreader bars for small missalignments which can subtly effect their length and thus the shape. Control head and weight misalignment is another very remote possibility.

Lastly, if you can find something strong enough, hang the bucket next to the good one and try to see any differences, then fill them and look again. Usually problems are easier to see when they are full, even though the weight wont make let them spin.

Intresting problem. Would love to hear any solutions you can find.

bambi Buckets
 

Can anyone help solve a mystery?

Why are Bambi buckets called "Bambi" buckets??

C'mon, Cliff Claven, I know you're out there.............

Why is it called the Bambi Bucket?
The name came about because of CBC’s Bob Fortune. He interviewed me on a show about inventors and we became friends. One night over dinner he asked me what I was going to call it. I didn’t want to talk business so I said “the Bambi Bucket” – I was just being goofy. But he said it was a great name and he was relentless in pushing me to keep it.

Taken from here: http://www.sfu.ca/aq/archives/Nov2003/whos_news/

Amazing how it only takes a different viewpoint to come up with a great idea.

Thank you so very much - you've been a great help!!!!!!!!!!!

taken from same interview just a little further down:

Yogic flying? Can anyone enlighten me plaese? Sounds bloody dangerous in any case! Maybe it requires a trained observer to keep a lookout for you ..... :} :p

Cheers

Woolf

Just do a search under "TM" or "transcendental meditation" and you'll get your answer.

It's just like real flying, only you don't get into an aircraft or leave the ground.

...bit like an Ostrich then ....:p


So why don't they call it Yogic sitting then? :confused:


:E

I've done some Yogic flying.

In a Cessna 210 while shagging the female pilot. :E

Bambi Bucket
 

Looking for anyone that has experience on repairing a leaky Bambi. It is leaking at the bottom,mainly through the orange skin that is some what worn. The bladder/valve semms ok. Does anybody know of any product that can be applied to seal this up or any other ideas.

Thanks

Bomb

bambi bucket ops and CAOs questions
 

Could someone please clarify a few issues concerning the following questions.


Questions (CAO references included)

1. Does CAO 29.5 (dropping of articles from aircraft in flight) cover bambi bucket operations OR is there another reference hidden elsewhere in the regs that relates specifically to bambi bucket operation.

2. CAO 29.5 5.1 - This section refers to carriage of `persons having duties relating to the operation`. What type of approved `duties` would permit the carriage of a non crew member during bambi bucket operations.


Please supply references to support response. I require written documentation.

Thanks

Anyone, anyone. Someone on the fires must know the answer to these questions.

Can't help you with the cao's.
When you carry a passenger who is not a crew member you reduce your water payload.
When dropping water on a fire there is usually ground control who insures no civilians are in the way.

Fire fighting operations require a Company Operations Manual (usually Section D), and an approval on the Company AOC.

Your reference to CAO 29.5 answers itself: if someone is a non crew member, they are not part of the crew and therefore can't be carried!

Possible answer to Q2, could include second pilot or observer.

Personal opinion on Q1, I doubt that the dropping of articles CAO would cover bucket work. Your Ops Manual should have specific information on fire fighting/bucket operations and that is approved by CASA

Bambi Bucket
 

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6ffaf7522.jpeg
I thought a Bambi if on a line had to be 50 ft plus ?

This is what you can expect to happen with this configuration...
Squirrel vs Bambi La Reunion, 2019

Lots of operators and pilots don't read the manual. Question is if they can't read, or don't bother.......

Because we’re out there saving Bambi from the forest fire!?

or……..🧐 because the manufacturer wrote it on the side…..😹

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....74f2e598b.jpeg

I had to rtb with this one because the release mechanism failed. Luckily the fire was out by then !

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....68b1d89d0.jpeg