Never flown the S-76, but landing in public areas with such a low rotor disc just sounds like a bad idea !

Original Dauphin was the right design, high rotor disc, fenestron tail but a bit noisy and gutless - I'd go for the EC155

I have been flying recently with both EC135 and Bell 430 operations and both of these have their good and bad points. Havent done any stories on S-76 programs yet so will have to do something soon.

IHL
Sounds like the ranges your flying the 609
might be the ticket.120-200 mile flights
start moving into the tiltrotors best capabilities. Plus you pointed out the anti-icing capability

Is the size of the Aircraft a concern ?
Its much larger in person than in pictures.
And for its size the cabin isnt very big.

And then there procurement cost.The 609s $12-$13 million is big money. The S-70 Firehawks LA.Fire Dept are getting cost $13 million each and took 7 years fund, and thats only for two aircraft ($26 million)
while theres a need for four.

Lastly ,its going to take 3-5 years before people get confidence in the civil tilt-rotor.

Sounds like one has to qualify the target area:
There is SWOOP and SCOOP where I suspect 80% of EMS is required, where you launch at short notice and land on the back of a postage stamp sized intersection and deliver to the nearest hospital.
Then there is AIR AMBULANCE where the job is pre planned including persons / equipment / organs etc from one hospital to another, often involving long ranges. Finally and perhaps a little outside this remit: Civilian SAR where the machine is very specialised (winch /abseilling/floats etc).

Because we are talking a huge range of costings here from: $500,000 for a cheap second hand 206 to $30,000,000 for the Japanese EH 101 police/HEMS helo!!! Who is paying??
Does the end justify the means....now thats a can of worms.



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Thermal runaway.

TO: Special 25

With the low blades on the S76 we usually have the non-flying pilot get out to secure the area ASAP after landing , if that's not possible one of our medics will secure the area untill we can shut down.

IHL

Are those civil EH-101s really $30 milllion ?

Wow...thats REALLY big money.

I wonder how the Japanese Tokyo Polices
EH-101s is working out ? They took a big chance on that deal !!

IHL

May i ask if you fly BANDAGE ONE ?

Also ,the S-76 isnt capable of any icing ?

Thanks

How does the EC155 comply with icing requirements? I thought there were NO civvy helos capable of flying in icing?

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Thermal runaway.

TC
I've heard that the Super Puma/Tiger/whatever the derivation were capable of flying in icing conditions as well as being civil helicopters.

"keeping an ear to the ground"

The Puma can be modified for blade anti-icing, as well as the Super Puma. The S92 will have blade anti-ice capability and it is intended to offer the same capability as a retrofit to the S76 and as an option on new S76's.

Of course, the Sikorsky S70 (Blackhawk), is not an option for any commercial operator as it is only certified in Restricted Category.

It is interesting to note, that the sole example of a commercial EH-101 that has been delivered, went to a Government agency. That makes all the sales of the EH-101 to Government agencies, which are without exception, noted for their ability to operate cost-effective programmes, representing great value to the taxpaying general public.

So in answer to Larry's question regarding value for money on the EH-101, the answer from the commercial sector, based upon sales, appears to be no.

Larry:
I do fly one of the "Bandage" aircraft but not bandage 1. As for ice , I have only heard rumors of new 76s being equiped for flight in known ice as mentioned earlier by cyclic hotline.

IHL

IHL:
Thanks. Ive only heard of BANDAGE 1 ,
There are other BANDAGE aircraft ? I remember reading an article from the early 80s when they flew a Bell 212.
They are also one of the earliest operators of the S-76 in EMS ops....correct ?

As far as icing , the Super Puma has some sort of ability and the Russions have helicopters that routinely fly in icing conditions. There is an article in Professional Pilot about icing and the S-92.
Ill read it and see what it says.

[This message has been edited by Larry (edited 04 March 2001).]

Larry:
There are actually 5 bandage bases in Ontario
and 7 EMS 76 bases in total:Bandage signifies critical care . Other bases are
Advanced Life support or Basic .
Bandage 1 : Toronto S76
Bandage 2 : Sudbury S76
Bandage 3 : Thunder Bay S76
Bandage 4 : Timmins King Air 200
Bandage 5 : Sioux Lookout King Air 200
Additional bases : Ottawa S76, London S76,
Moosonee S76, Kenora S76.

Plus numerous other fixed wing operators in various aircraft from Pilatus PC12s, MU 2s
King Airs, and even a dash 7.

IHL

Go to be the Bell 222. If you're going to hospital, why not go with a bit of STYLE?

StevieTerrier

I recently flew with Air Med in Salt Lake City, will raise you one Bell 430 and a 407 which is what they have there. 430 is nice ship.

PR

IHL
Thanks for the info about BANGDAGE.
I had no,idea they operated out of so many places and had so many Aircraft.
Is it a Government program ?

And (if you know) why did they choose the S-76 as its helicopter....speed ?

Have they looked at the 609 yet ?

Thanks

Are the Bandage aircraft the S-76s in the old Okanagan orange paint scheme.

If you go by the total accomplishments and the total number lives saved it would have to be the Bell H-13 and right behind that it would be the Bell UH-1.

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The Cat

Lu

Although the Huey might be the winner ,i would bet the Sikorsky H-3 series have saved the MOST people of any helicopter made.

To Larry:
The EMS program in Ontario is a Provincial Government program. The Helicopter service is Contracted out to Canadian Helicopters. The Banadage program(Helicopter) is up for renewal, the successful bider has not yet been announced. The contract requires a helicopter such as the S76, Bell 412, Dauphin.
The S76 is used because of , speed, cabin size for 2 paramedics + 2 patients, IFR capability, range, and urbanly friendly.
The 212 is un-acceptable because it is slow and noisy. With regards to the 609 I think it will be 8 years before we see it flying EMS. I think CHC has 10 on order and I think they will try and flog them offshore.

To PAC: They are in the Okanagan Orange colour with Blue and white trim, White orange and Blue happens to be the colours of the Ambulance services in Ontario.

IHL

[This message has been edited by IHL (edited 08 March 2001).]