Rotor Pilot - the Sea King does not have one role, it has many, and of those (SAR, ASW,SH,AEW,Medevac,training etc) the only one a Merlin is better suited for is ASW - the RN are, I believe, quite happy with it now all the glitches are sorted.
However - it is not a better SAR platform except for its speed (which many other aircraft can match). The Danes convinced themselves that they could cope with the severe downwash - they talked about a doughnut of calm air under the rotor - but unless you can move the winch so it is always directly above this 'doughnut' (which will move depending on the wind strength and direction) then you will always have a big problem.

It is a sign of a weak argument and inability to address the criticisms of the 101 that you have to try to smear the competition - you really should be in politics you know.

[email protected]

I think it's not me that should be in politics …

I didn't smear any competition at all. Its something I never do, regardless of the circumstances.
From the details I posted in one post and the three "hints" in another, if you know something about helicopters you will have noticed that NONE of those machines are "competition" to the "Sea King" replacement. They have no size or power for it. In fact, the number of machines for those roles is so small that, to speak about "competition" is almost an overstatement.

For "maritime" roles I only see four, or let's say it, five: NH90, S92, EC725 - Cougar, NH101, and US101.

• We saw here how the NH101 with a crew of 5 rescued, in very stormy seas, one by one, the 25 members of a Spanish trawler crew that was about to capsize due to ice build-up…
  
• We also saw a rescue of injured people from another vessel that included a refuelling in mid ocean at the Ibernia oil platform and, in spite of this mid-ocean refuelling, he used up almost all of the 7 hour endurance of the helicopter. (30 minutes left)

Except for the "Sea Stallion" no other aircraft could have done those two rescues, either by by lack of pax capacity or lack of autonomy…


Please don't talk to me about doughnuts because I simply hate the stuff and is responsible for the obesity rate of North American teenagers…
I am not smearing anyone when I say that nobody as ever built a failure proof helicopter.


2004 February 5 - Sikosky sued in helicopter crash

2004 February 05 - Sikorsky sued in helicopter crash

who is this sikosky company then ?.

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article....icleID=1521675

But let's face it would they really prefer to still be flying the Labs ?. though the latest issue of flight comment shows 6 in the air at the same time.

Cracking windscreen.
 

Can anyone tell me what material (plastic) is used to make the windscreens on the Cormorant?

:confused: :E :E :confused:

B Sousa------ UH-60A...Now thats an 'A' model that had a serious 'hiccup' at the loss of many lives, but still went on to fly Millions of hours safely, efficiently and reliably!
The S-92 development is born out of all those 'Hawk' hour's.
It's a very impressive machine, and despite it's relatively very low hours, has a component proven track record! Igor's products are the best in the world......but then again, he had a head start!!!;) :p ...........That's my 10 cents!!!!!

All choppers start like that and go on and became very reliable machines... No big deal.

About "new" helicopters "based" on other models achievements...

When we look at the EC725 Cougar it "looks" just like an upgrade of the Puma... with all its reliability...

However it has:

New engines
New mast
New "run dry" gear box
New main rotor
New tail rotor
New set of avionics
Not sure about transmission
and God knows what else is new.

The only thing it got from the Puma (so to speak) was its looks and the engenieeering capability of the development team that has done great things in the past… :D :D :D
To jump to a conclusion that one can “draw” on reliability of other models because it is “based” on them is something that needs a very careful approach. :rolleyes:

So I don't know what the big deal is. I never expect a chopper to last forever or to be completely fail-proof, even if good maintenance is done, let alone when tight budgets get in the way.

Lu Zuckerman

I don't know what type of material the windshields are but some helicopters use this:

http://www.plasticsusa.com/pcabs.html

A cracked windshield ?? I wish every problem in helicopters would be as beningn as that. Nobody would ever die of them. Unfortunately many models have far more serious problems with far more deadly consequences, as we have been seing over the years.

If all this rant proves something is how good the Merlin is :ok: :ok: :ok:

Polycarbonate plastic v Plexiglas
 

To: RotorPilot

Polycarbonate is much stronger than Plexiglas ® in many ways but it has a very serious problem if the installation is not designed properly and that problem is stress corrosion. If the screws/bolts that hold the Polycarbonate plastic structure in place apply a compressive load and the structure is subsequently cleaned with an alkaline product the material will stress corrode and it will eventually crack to relieve the compressive load.

I first became aware of this problem while working on the Apache program when a friend of mine that worked in the engineering department of Continental Airlines contacted me. He told me that the interior decorative panels were made of Polycarbonate plastic and covered with a decorative decal. He indicated that where ever there was an attachment screw the plastic cracked. I asked him what kind of cleaning agent they used and he replied that they were using an alkaline cleaner. It just so happened that there was a consultant in the engineering department of Hughes helicopters that had a Ph.D. in glass and plastic chemistry. I asked him about my friends’ problem and he told me about the stress corrosion. He also indicated that if there were any compressive or tensile stresses the Polycarbonate would crack to relieve the stresses. Several years later while working at Agusta I became aware that the air duct on the A-109 was cracking and was constantly being replaced. It turned out it was made of Polycarbonate plastic.


:E :E

Lu

I know it is.

As a matter of fact, Police bullet-proof helmets and hand shields are made of Polycarbonate. They are made in "layers", each one designed to resist one impact of a certain bullet caliber.

The trick is not to let all they "layers" go before getting the hell out of there... ;)

Strength oposes ductility. So, anything really "strong" tend to crack under stress. No big news in here.

See the diamonds they can cut anything... but hit them with even a small hammer and see the type of powder you get :D

---

You may have missed the point.
 

To: RotorPilot

What you said is true but my point was that with its’ strength Polycarbonate when used as a transparency or any other formed part the installation must be designed correctly or you get the stress corrosion and the attendant cracking. I would suggest that if there are any Cormorant pilots on this forum they should determine if the transparencies are actually made from Polycarbonate and if so their engineering personnel should check to see how the transparencies are held in place. If the screws or bolts exert a direct compressive load on the plastic material then this could be the cause for the cracking (assuming the transparencies are of Polycarbonate material). If the transparencies are made from Polycarbonate the maintenance personnel should not use alkaline detergents to clean the airframe.

:E :E

Windscreens...
 

Misters Zuckerman and RotorPilot:

The windscreens on the Cormorant are compised as follows:

- 3mm of chemically tempered outer glass
- 1.5mm of polyurethane interlayer
- 1mm polycarbonate
- 0.76mm polyurethane interlayer
- 2.1mm of chemically tempered glass
- 0.76mm polyurethane interlayer
- 1.25mm of ASP inner ply (1mm of polycarb and 0.25mm abrasion resistant layer)

Produced by Pilkington Aerospace at a cost of approximately CAD$250 000.

The engineers identified the cracking problem was the result of installation stresses, and the procedure has since been modified. To my knowledge there hasn't been a cracked w/s since the new procedure was implemented 8 months ago.

Mr. Zed: I was intrigued by your earlier offer for additional information on the unserviceabilities of the 101. However, as I am required to earn my crust with this aircraft I think it'd be detrimental to SAR decision making...and my mental health if I knew the 'whole story':uhoh:

lp

Ooo love it when we get technical .

Do the windshields have heater wires embedded in them for de icing ?
Are the windshields held in place by screws or bonded ?.
On the latest Eurochoppers they are bonded and it is no small exercise to replace them .

LabPilot

Thank you for the input. That's one can call a windshield !!! For 250 K I could pay 50% of a good new home here in TO

Zuckerman

NOW you are done !!!
How come are you going to survive the fact that, the "tremendous flaw" of the windshield was just "stress" and no problem reported after procedures changed !!! :} :} :}

Can't you find anything more serious :E :E :E

How about a fuel leak just the same type we find in any aircraft every now and then. Would it do ???

:uhoh:

Widgeon: you make it sound like you may have replaced an ec-120/130 window or two, its all in the prep and a hole boatload of patience
dr

To: RotorPilot

The answer to that question is yes but I can't answer it on a public forum. I got jumped by Agustas' lawyers once and I don't want to go through that again. As I offered in a previous post I will discuss it with the Canadian members of this forum. All you have to do is PM me and identify yourself and your association with the Cormorant.

:E :E

Did you read my post.
 

To:

Labpilot said: The engineers identified the cracking problem was the result of installation stresses, and the procedure has since been modified. To my knowledge there hasn't been a cracked w/s since the new procedure was implemented 8 months ago.

Isn't that what I stated? "Polycarbonate when used as a transparency or any other formed part the installation must be designed correctly or you get the stress corrosion and the attendant cracking".

:E :E

Zuckerman

I understand perfectly well what you are saying. I was just pulling your leg, not trying to drag you into some kind of "inconvenience" :D :D
I can identify myself privately. A lot of people in another forum do know who am I.
The only thing I can't do is identifying an association that simply do not exist . I do not have any association with any helicopter or helicopter manufacturer. I am a just another pilot, presently in Toronto, and looking for a job (as soon as certain matters with Canadian immigration that have been dragging for more than 2 years are solved?
However, when I started flying many moons ago, I had a stupendous school and the opportunity to fly new models and I am familiar with these type of "start-up" problems with new types of aircraft.
It's a matter of pride to me, my small anonymous contribution to help solve some of those problems and call the attention of the manufacturers technicians for other potential ones. (because we were pushing the "envelope" to its very limits too).

From the contact of those manufacturer's technicians while solving problems, I also got to know a thing or two that they do not teach in the schools and one of them is to keep the eyes wide open at all times and never completely trust one's luck no matter what :D :E :E

I never expect a new model to be without a few snags just in the same way as I don¡¦t believe that there are fail-proof pilots either. :D :E :E

2004 February 17


Ontario Aerospace Industry Pursuing Maritime Helicopter Program (MHP) Opportunities

Hmm how come they did not invite Lu and I LOL.

I haven’t the slightest idea :p :p :p