UK AAIB(H) January 2024 Welshpool: Passenger given control of helicopter before crash
 

R-22 dynamic rollover during an air experience trip. Student appears not to have much natural talent. link

I think there’s a good reason why hovering is exercise 11a in the EASA PPL syllabus. This activity sounds like a recipe for a problem.

Welshpool: Passenger given control of helicopter before crash
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67956994
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4902b351d9.jpg

Why - had the pilot given up? :confused:

Here’s another for Jan 2024 - I saw it earlier but now they must have fixed the link. Ground handling wheel falls off Rotorway: link

In any case, the pilot was responsible for the flight. Stating that the passenger was flying, and perhaps did not relinquish control when asked, really does not change the responsibility of the pilot - in the eyes of the regulator, and the insurance company. For my experience flying an R22, allowing a no experience person to hover it is risky...

I note the BBC report seems to omit the word "instructor" which would rather spoil the image they are perhaps trying to convey of idiot amateur pilots letting their friends have a go.

That said, I'm surprised that a nascent helicopter pilot would be allowed to try hovering quite so early - is that normal?

It's normal for "trial lessons" or "experience flights" which are effectively pleasure flights with a shot of the controls rather than actual lessons as part of a syllabus.

They are often given as gifts to people who have no real expectation of going any further with the training.

But since they are "lessons" rather than pleasure flights they can be operated by flying schools rather than AOCs.

Trial lessons are a huge part of the economics of many flying schools and giving the "student" a good experience that they tell their friends about is very heavily emphasised.

Worse than that as a PPLH one can do a short introductory flight ( no hands on ) with a pax, the idea being to introduce someone to flying. Interestingly a short introductory flight has to be less than 1.5 hours. doesnt state if one can take pax or not !!!!!
If a an air experience flight ( aka trial lesson ) which is lesson 3 it is up to the instructor how much flying the " student " does

Pretty crappy level of instruction frankly..........

As far as I was aware, if I’m not an instructor, the aircraft can’t have dual controls installed if the occupant of the left seat isn’t a rated pilot. As a PPL(H) I have taken people up, but I’m b******d if I’ll let them fly it!

Did it say the instructor was sat in the right? Must admit, haven't read it all.

Good point, I might have misread Hughes500’s post.

No UK rules about not having dual controls fitted.

There may be some club or syndicate rules but nothing from CAA.

Well, until you have done trial lessons in an R22, I don't think it's fair to pass comment. If the student grabs the controls and doesn't let go (or does a large wrong control input), and you are near the ground, there is often very little you can do. And yes, you can brief them in the classroom and in the aircraft, but that often goes out of the window when the engine starts.

I have done hundreds of trial lessons and about 80% of people don't even say "I have control" when you give them control, despite briefing them beforehand about it.

Don't forget these people are not military school pilots, they are mostly just ordinary members of the public that have been given a 20 min/30 min trial lesson "experience" voucher as a present. Sometimes teenagers and grannies, often older people who have never been in a helicopter, and some that don't even drive a car!

It's irrelevant what seat the FI is in, there are no rules laid down by the CAA or Robinson. Some FIs do trial lessons from the right seat as it's easier to reach the carb heat and radio etc while flying

If you have gone from 15 feet down to hitting the ground when you as the instructor have the collective and pedals as well as being able to at least have some decent input on the cyclic then it is 'pretty crappy' no matter who is in the other seat.

Agreed

And the one time someone I worked with had this happen it was a staff college visit and he let a random staff officer have control in the 5' hover - it ended much the same way and was poor instruction.

The report reads as though the FI had no control of the cyclic as the passenger/student was gripping it. I am sure it all happened rather quickly.