Originally Posted by Bug
(Post 11406868)
Somewhat more useful than the ABC's video at least, that was a waste of bandwidth from which I learnt nothing... |
An accountant!!!
You are such a Dag ozbiggles. If you are looking for a gun fight, then I’m afraid you are pointing your pistol at the wrong fella, as I merely highlighted the managed risk the USN has for its Sea Hawk crews egress in the event of a survivable entry into water. The USN is by a mile, the world’s largest operator of the Sea Hawk and has been for well over 30 years now, and from their own experience, they considered that rather than giving the crews a little extra time, the EFS set-up on the SH-60B Sea Hawk was more likely to impede egress, rather than assist, as such the EFS system was subsequently removed, so the USN looked at other methods to preserve life, regular HUET training being one of them. If you don’t agree with their risk management assessment after close to 40 years of operating the Sea Hawk, that’s your prerogative, but don’t shoot the bookkeeper. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11407227)
If you want to operate over the water, heavy and below MinSELF - having floats is a no-brainer. MCT Ops certainly fit that profile.
Hoping it won't happen is not risk-mitigation. |
Originally Posted by Nescafe
(Post 11406874)
One less to trade in against the UH60M.
Originally Posted by golder
(Post 11406892)
At least this one does float. It has been a different story with the UH60M and MH-60R, that has no flotation
The nh90 and Australia https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/du...l-but-why-now/ The MRH-90 has been costing $35,000 per hour to operate. Last financial year that ballooned to $50,000 and it was probably the final straw. |
Maybe they should have another crack at the Seasprite?
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Heck you may end up in the local sewage settling pond Wessex had a unofficial procedure re popping the floats, last man out stuck his knife in. |
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...licopter-crash
This is what happens when accountants do risk management. |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11407727)
We had a chap who had a hydraulics failure in a fixed float B205 and he put it in the most convenient body of water, the local sewage farm. No harm done.
Wessex had a unofficial procedure re popping the floats, last man out stuck his knife in. |
It's not that simple. The H-60 family are very "dense" aircraft, and sink faster than a rock with a stone tied to it. |
So not fit for purpose for over water ops then? With AAR kit the USAF conducts very long range SAR Ops using the 60. |
So not fit for purpose for over water ops then? |
Originally Posted by Robbo Jock
(Post 11408142)
I still remember the HUET course I did in HMS Dolphin in the early eighties. The exciting wet bits were preceded by a seemingly endless briefing going into great detail about exactly how we would die in every helicopter in NATO's inventory. One highlight was how fast the Lynx would sink. ISTR the lecturer talking about 'sinking trials' of a Lynx in a Scottish loch with divers aboard. Under certain conditions it sank so fast the divers could not physically extract themselves from their seats.
Not a Scottish Loch per se. A tank at Glen Fruin near Faslane. Now derelict. And indeed your lecturers spoke the truth. Once that forward compartment filled up with water the thing sank like a rock, floats or no. STAS was ( and is) a great bit of kit…draconian briefs aside. |
Why didn’t he put it on the ground? |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11408370)
You'd have to ask him, having many hours in the identical configured aircraft I'm not sure how a running landing on roughish ground would turn out. Anyone?
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Originally Posted by MENELAUS
(Post 11408288)
Not a Scottish Loch per se. A tank at Glen Fruin near Faslane. Now derelict. And indeed your lecturers spoke the truth. Once that forward compartment filled up with water the thing sank like a rock, floats or no. STAS was ( and is) a great bit of kit…draconian briefs aside.
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Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11408116)
The US Navy, US Coast Guard, and the USAF along with several other Militaries might challenge that view.
With AAR kit the USAF conducts very long range SAR Ops using the 60. I suspect 60 on the long range SAR jobs gets to the casualty with a low enough fuel state to hover OEI, AAR on the way home and mitigates the risks that way - not so much of an option on MCT Ops. |
Not much in the news that I can find. Has it been removed from the water yet?
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Crab.....you have any accident stats to support your opinion or is it. just 60 envy that prompts your comment?
How many instances of Emergency Float systems not working as advertised and to what sea state are they rated? Modern day engines are pretty reliable and most modern helicopters do pretty well. on one engine at sea level. Perhaps hovering over an Alpine Lake in the heat of Summer might offer a problem for an OGE hover. If I had a four engined. helicopter that would hover on one....I might still want a fifth just for insurance. Sometimes you do have to trust the Engineeers and Safety Mafia when they offer decisions made upon the Laws of Probability as there is. no perfect helicopter yet to be invented. Look back the the USAF H-3 Jolly Greens and what they did using AAR while doing Combat SAR missions....and later with the CH-53's. As always in aviation....there is a certain amount of risk in everything we do.....and never is there zero risk even if the aircraft never leaves the ground. |
It is bizarre to see these hawk lovers all up in arms when clearly EFS was undoubtedly valuable in this incident. Is this whatever on NH90 is bad mentality healthy, if at all?
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Originally Posted by Capt Fathom
(Post 11408587)
Not much in the news that I can find. Has it been removed from the water yet?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-...ence/102143148 https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn...862&height=485 |
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