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-   -   Airbus Helicopters H225 flies on sustainable fuel (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/643639-airbus-helicopters-h225-flies-sustainable-fuel.html)

chopper2004 10th Nov 2021 09:37

Airbus Helicopters H225 flies on sustainable fuel
 


Airbus Helicopters flew a H225 with sustainable fuel..

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/p...-aviation-fuel


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....40604ab38.jpeg

JohnDixson 10th Nov 2021 12:20

Reminded of Willie Nelson and his Bio-diesel Tour Bus: https://money.cnn.com/2007/09/26/new...willie_nelson/

[email protected] 10th Nov 2021 14:41

Is it too ironic, given the 225's history, that it almost says 100% SAFE on the tail? :) Close but no cigar......

Twist & Shout 10th Nov 2021 20:37

Every hour - Land, check the fuel level and change the MRGB?

UpAndDownAndUpAndDow 10th Nov 2021 20:56

Forgive my ignorance, but I've never seen a mention of the difference in performance of SAF vs conventional fuels. Are we safe to assume that SAF matches conventional fuels on performance or would it be too cynical of me to wonder if there is a reason why this isn't usually reported on?

Mee3 11th Nov 2021 10:40

The current development focus on safety, far from optimising, yet.

212man 11th Nov 2021 11:25


Originally Posted by UpAndDownAndUpAndDow (Post 11140315)
Forgive my ignorance, but I've never seen a mention of the difference in performance of SAF vs conventional fuels. Are we safe to assume that SAF matches conventional fuels on performance or would it be too cynical of me to wonder if there is a reason why this isn't usually reported on?

SAF has a higher energy density than fossil fuels

minigundiplomat 11th Nov 2021 13:00

Let’s hope the rotorhead doesn’t fall off.

HeliComparator 12th Nov 2021 12:34


Originally Posted by minigundiplomat (Post 11140630)
Let’s hope the rotorhead doesn’t fall off.

Well, considering only one rotor head ever fell of a 225 in hundreds of thousands of hours (may be even millions) it seems fairly unlikely.

I wonder if, when viewing any other type of helicopter, you cite its history of mechanical failures and say “I hope that doesn’t happen again”. No, I though not.

industry insider 13th Nov 2021 02:08


Well, considering only one rotor head ever fell of a 225 in hundreds of thousands of hours (may be even millions) it seems fairly unlikely.
1 rotor head fell off in about 400k 225 hours. Its millions of hours if you add the 332 family, but then add another rotor head falling off G-REDL.

casper64 13th Nov 2021 13:23


Originally Posted by industry insider (Post 11141395)
1 rotor head fell off in about 400k 225 hours. Its millions of hours if you add the 332 family, but then add another rotor head falling off G-REDL.

as far as I have read, action has been taken by Airbus because of these events to prevent them in the future…. So indeed it is a bit silly to bring this up every time a 225 is mentioned. We don’t do the same about gearboxes of a S92 or horizontal stabilizers of blackhawks etc etc.

Here the topic was flight in SAF which I think is a cool initiative, by whomever and regardless of the aircraft type..

Petit-Lion 13th Nov 2021 19:23

Wait for the first SAF-fueled R66 :)

HeliComparator 14th Nov 2021 20:25


Originally Posted by industry insider (Post 11141395)
1 rotor head fell off in about 400k 225 hours. Its millions of hours if you add the 332 family, but then add another rotor head falling off G-REDL.

In my opinion REDL was an avoidable maintenance error so I disregard that one. One failure is of course not statistically significant so whether it was 400k hrs or 4 million doesn’t tell us much! What we do know is pilots cause accidents much more frequently. Fortunately the brave new world sees helicopters flying without pilots, so that one can be ticked off the list!

industry insider 15th Nov 2021 00:16

Casper


as far as I have read, action has been taken by Airbus because of these events to prevent them in the future…. So indeed it is a bit silly to bring this up every time a 225 is mentioned.
Firstly, I didn't actually bring the subject up. Secondly, the 332L2 and 225 departing rotor heads however caused changed the industry forever.

Regarding action taken by Airbus to prevent them happening again, even the latest Airbus Helicopters super medium product requires an MGB change at 800 hours. When an Airbus Helicopter super medium or heavy has an MGB installed that routinely makes a TBO of 4k or 5k hours, I will be more convinced.

Twist & Shout 15th Nov 2021 19:44


Originally Posted by casper64 (Post 11141616)
as far as I have read, action has been taken by Airbus because of these events to prevent them in the future…. So indeed it is a bit silly to bring this up every time a 225 is mentioned. We don’t do the same about gearboxes of a S92 or horizontal stabilizers of blackhawks etc etc.

Here the topic was flight in SAF which I think is a cool initiative, by whomever and regardless of the aircraft type..

The difference in the examples you use is:
The actual reason for the S92 gearbox failure was identified and fixed - also if you were flying an S92, still fitted with Ti filter studs, and they failed, you should be able to avert disaster by landing/ditching immediately.
Airbus admit they do not know why the gearbox failed in an unsurvivable way. They identified some potential causes and took steps to mitigate these causes. If the failure occurs again - everyone dies, and it’s “back to the drawing board” for further fixes.

casper64 15th Nov 2021 20:49


Originally Posted by Twist & Shout (Post 11142622)
The difference in the examples you use is:
The actual reason for the S92 gearbox failure was identified and fixed - also if you were flying an S92, still fitted with Ti filter studs, and they failed, you should be able to avert disaster by landing/ditching immediately.
Airbus admit they do not know why the gearbox failed in an unsurvivable way. They identified some potential causes and took steps to mitigate these causes. If the failure occurs again - everyone dies, and it’s “back to the drawing board” for further fixes.

That is a VERY coarse summary of the Airbus briefing…. You never know what “dormant failure” might kill you until it does… That goes for any aircraft taking off. I am sure Airbus has done its homework… another similar event would basically kill the company.

But we still are no talking about SAF… do the exhaust fumes smell like French fries? 😉

Fun_police 16th Nov 2021 00:06

Does any of this gearbox stuff have anything to do with the original post?

Petit-Lion 16th Nov 2021 03:39


But we still are no talking about SAF… do the exhaust fumes smell like French fries? 😉
According to the article,

The H225 test helicopter flew with an unblended SAF derived from used cooking oil, provided by TotalEnergies
And only deep frying leaves used oil. Which brings the next issue : how many kilogrammes of french fries must be cooked per flight hour? Given 2 liters of oil in a 1 kg deep fryer, and 10-15 uses before piping it to Total...
And only 50% of the helicopter engines run on 100% SAF, too

casper64 16th Nov 2021 17:52


Originally Posted by Petit-Lion (Post 11142777)
According to the article,

And only deep frying leaves used oil. Which brings the next issue : how many kilogrammes of french fries must be cooked per flight hour? Given 2 liters of oil in a 1 kg deep fryer, and 10-15 uses before piping it to Total...
And only 50% of the helicopter engines run on 100% SAF, too

well, clearly they wanted to do it safe. What I understood is 1 engine ran on 100% SAF and the other on regular Jet A1. So if all flight testing goes well I would assume the aircraft could fly completely on SAF. Interesting question would indeed be: how much used cooking oil would all (fastfood) restaurants in, in this case France, produce per day?

Petit-Lion 27th Nov 2021 20:35

And so it begins
 
Wow, seems to be a real problem. Surge of cooking oil thefts in restaurants. Wall Street Journal.

Soggy French Fries? Blame the Cooking Oil Price Spike. ‘It’s Pretty Much Liquid Gold.’
https://www.wsj.com/articles/soggy-f...ld-11637336419


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