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-   -   UKSAR2G - MCA CivSAR Second Generation (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/638366-uksar2g-mca-civsar-second-generation.html)

TUPE 11th Oct 2021 17:26

Airbus Helicopters pulls out of UK SAR2G contest 11-Oct-2021

SimonK 11th Oct 2021 20:57

Thanks for posting the link guys - interesting development indeed. Wonder why they pulled out in the end?

[email protected] 12th Oct 2021 06:44

I think I could make a good guess........

Medevac999 12th Oct 2021 07:20


Originally Posted by SimonK (Post 11124928)
Thanks for posting the link guys - interesting development indeed. Wonder why they pulled out in the end?

and where does this leave Drakens helicopter business?

SimonK 12th Oct 2021 07:36


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125082)
I think I could make a good guess........

Well it is a rumour network after all Crab - go for it ;)

[email protected] 12th Oct 2021 09:33

Simon K - if you knew who I worked for - well until the end of the year anyway - you would probably guess where I would point the finger................

SimonK 12th Oct 2021 09:41


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125172)
Simon K - if you knew who I worked for - well until the end of the year anyway - you would probably guess where I would point the finger................

I have no idea who you work for Crab...not to worry was just curious anyway. I'm sure it will all come out in the wash soon enough.

[email protected] 12th Oct 2021 12:59

Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

SimonK 12th Oct 2021 13:09


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

Ok I get the picture, cheers :)

Baldeep Inminj 12th Oct 2021 14:04


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

Guess you’re not referring to Draken pulling the pin…🙄

Medevac999 12th Oct 2021 14:32


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

well said Crab! Not much left for their rotary business now!

detgnome 12th Oct 2021 18:44


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

Boom, mike drop, leaves the room...

_SpinFlight_ 13th Oct 2021 09:26


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

Brilliant! Care to offer an opinion on the plank side of the company or shall we apply carte blanche there also?

Medevac999 29th Oct 2021 15:55


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 11125334)
Well if you are in partnership with a company who has a spineless leadership team and can't manage important contracts properly - including being very disingenuous with the customers - wouldn't you pull the pin if you had an international reputation to protect?

Draken have just informed staff that they are pulling the pin on all their helicopter contracts

lowfat 30th Oct 2021 10:01

What ? the Dutch Antilles and Cyprus?

black.beard 30th Oct 2021 17:19


Originally Posted by Medevac999 (Post 11134089)
Draken have just informed staff that they are pulling the pin on all their helicopter contracts

wow - glad I did nt get the job with them now (they have operations in W Mids as well)

Baldeep Inminj 31st Oct 2021 12:40


Originally Posted by black.beard (Post 11134586)
wow - glad I did nt get the job with them now (they have operations in W Mids as well)

You dodged a bullet there. When Cobham bought FB Heliservices they kept the same incompetent management- this was a fatal mistake. Draken bought a business that was terminally ill, run by bullies and arrogant narcissists.

I feel for the guys losing their jobs, but they will hopefully find some comfort in the fact that anyone else will be better to work for.

[email protected] 1st Nov 2021 12:26

Where is the 'Like' button?

Ant T 1st Nov 2021 12:47


Originally Posted by Baldeep Inminj (Post 11134979)
You dodged a bullet there. When Cobham bought FB Heliservices they kept the same incompetent management- this was a fatal mistake. Draken bought a business that was terminally ill, run by bullies and arrogant narcissists.

I feel for the guys losing their jobs, but they will hopefully find some comfort in the fact that [almost] anyone else will be better to work for.

Don’t know just how bad that operation was, but be careful, they might not be the worst . . .

Torquetalk 1st Nov 2021 21:02

Bullying and arrogant narcissist management. Hmmn, bit of an industry pandemic right there. Sadly, the cuckoos are sure to inculcate themselves into a new nest and muck things up anew.

jimf671 8th Mar 2022 19:37

I am expecting an Invitation to Submit Final Tender is being issued this month. That sort of timing would mean that by the end of May it is more or less all over. At that point, an internal review and assurance process is due to take place. We should expect the award letters to go out around late August which triggers a stand still period (10 days? 3 weeks?) after which a public announcement will be made.

Lots 1, 2, and 4 are now whittled down to BHL and EEA (CHC).

Lot 3 (FW & UAV) was 2Excel, EEA, and Elbit but I have no idea if that has been reduced further at the final stage. Anyone know?

UpAndDownAndUpAndDow 9th Mar 2022 08:37

Forgive my naivety, and my wish to draw conclusions based on the wisdom of the other forum members, but I don't have much knowledge on UK SAR.

Is there a clear "favourite" to win the contract? I understand BHL have been running the UK SAR contract recently, and I believe have been doing a good job of it? Is there any reason why they wouldn't / shouldn't win the contract again this time around?

But then again, I believe EEA / CHC also run SAR in Ireland, so it's not as if they have no experience in the matter.

Any info and thoughts appreciated!

jimf671 9th Mar 2022 13:29

BHL do SAR in the UK, northern Norway, Netherlands and elsewhere. Incumbent contractor. Bristow SAR

CHC do SAR in Ireland, contracts about to start in parts of Norway, and elsewhere. They had the UK contract for 4 HMCG bases from 2007 to 2013 and 2 of those until 2015/17 (lower spec than current UK SAR). CHC SAR and EMS.

In 2018/19, Qinetiq's Post Implementation Report examined the implementation of the current contract. There wasn't much wrong.

The UK Govt have let about 20 contracts for SAR helicopters since 1971 and only 4 of those have been won by companies not called Bristow.

helicrazi 9th Mar 2022 20:12

They do a very good job on the coal face, no doubting that.

The balance sheet on the other hand...

Ant T 9th Mar 2022 23:20


Originally Posted by helicrazi (Post 11197487)
They do a very good job on the coal face, no doubting that.
The balance sheet on the other hand...

Are they providing the service they were contracted to provide, at the price that was agreed? If so, then that sheet is balanced. (How it affects the overall government finances is a different matter).

Awarding a contract to the lowest bidder does not necessarily result in the best value for money. If the contractor is unable to fulfil the contract, it may result in penalties to the contractor, but also results in the customer not getting the required level of service.


JulieAndrews 10th Mar 2022 14:34

....and you cannot levy penalties on a company if they have gone bust!

Variable Load 10th Mar 2022 17:40

A UK business with only £1.68bn of debt on the books. What could possibly go wrong?

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...business-debt/



jimf671 10th Mar 2022 21:01

It was clear from the Bristow Group numbers during the early period of the contract that UK SAR was bringing in an important slice of reliable revenue without which the entire group may have had a very different future. As time went by it was clear that Baliff and co-conspirators were presenting an alternative reality in the books with things like SAR aircraft purchases being reported as shifted out impossibly far into the future. The way things turned out, that alternative reality must have stretched across the entire group.

With their six decades of experience of oil and gas ops, I am moderately confident in the ability of BHL and the usual suspects to take advantage of recent oil price changes.

minigundiplomat 10th Mar 2022 23:20


Originally Posted by Variable Load (Post 11197948)
A UK business with only £1.68bn of debt on the books. What could possibly go wrong?

https://www.energyvoice.com/oilandga...business-debt/

you could always go with one of its competitors.


https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL4N2PK1GS

detgnome 14th Jun 2022 20:59

Anybody care to comment/speculate on rumours that CHC are no longer in the bid process?

jimf671 15th Jun 2022 14:56


Originally Posted by detgnome (Post 11246159)
Anybody care to comment/speculate on rumours that CHC are no longer in the bid process?

"What is the Black Spot, Captain?"


Actually, the decisions should have been made by now for all the lots. Lot 1 - quick response helicopter, lot 2 - long range helicopter, lot 3 - FW and UAV, or lot 4 - combined.

My last estimate of the detailed timeline reads as follows.

Evaluation of Final Tenders - late May 2022 (so, decision made, but not declared to parties?)
Government Internal and Assurance Process - late May to late Aug 2022
Award Decision(s) Finalised - late Aug 2022
Standstill Letter(s) Issued - late Aug 2022
Contract(s) Completed With Supplier(s) - Sept 2022 (and announcement)

I am expecting the 'assurance process' to be in the traditions of the current government and take at least a month longer. However, the MCA/DfT have kept it on track so far which means they have already made their choices. These processes have certainly been known to leak in the past. :rolleyes: They have also been known to leak incorrectly. :E

CHC-out would mean Bristow win at least Lot 1 and Lot 2. The question then is Lot 3 (FW/UAV) or Lot 4 (Combined).

[Reminder.
There have been about 20 SAR helicopter contracts let by the UK government since 1971. Only three of those have been won by companies not called Bristow, or subsequently bought by Bristow.]


helihub 16th Jun 2022 16:23


Originally Posted by detgnome (Post 11246159)
Anybody care to comment/speculate on rumours that CHC are no longer in the bid process?

I'm hearing that too


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