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Wow, that's a lot more than even I thought! $366/hr over 12 years at 100 hr/yr without the overhaul (and I'm assuming the bigger inspections trump the cost of the smaller ones in any given year).
+ $240/hr for insurance + $155/hr for fuel Puts it at $761/hr over 12 years and that's before oil and misc. expenses. Get hit with an engine overhaul during that time and now your are looking at an additional $208/hr for a grand total of $969/hr. Again this assumes 100 hr/yr. It's a nice helicopter but is it that much nicer than an R66? The latter coming in at about $562/hr over 12 years (with the Robinson numbers adjusted for 100 hr/yr). |
Originally Posted by aa777888
(Post 10923327)
It's a nice helicopter but is it that much nicer than an R66?
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I don't think you can beat the cost of the r66 if you want a light single turbine; but to echo Apollo, I'd much rather be flying around in the EC120!
aa, where did you get the $208/hr from for turbine overhaul? $250k and 3,000hr TBO is $83/hr. Round up to $100 for good measure. |
Just making the point that if you bought a used machine such that if it was your turn when the overhaul came up, amortizing that cost over 12 years of ownership at 100 hours/year is quite costly. You would need to fly a lot more per year, or keep the ship for 30 years. On the other hand perhaps your capital cost was not so high with a mid or high time engine. There's a fine line between capital costs and operating costs that needs to be rationalized, though.
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Yep I think you nailed it. If you are 1,000hrs TSO, then take 1,000hrs x $100/hr = $100,000. You should deduct this off the purchase price for the engine overhaul. Same goes for gearboxes, etc.
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Originally Posted by rotorfun
(Post 10910361)
Thanks for the info everyone. I spoke to a local EC120 operator and was informed the costs I could expect:
- $5k/yr for 100hr inspection - $25k every 2 yrs - $60k every 7 yrs - $250k every 12 yrs - $250k turbine overhaul - very limited unscheduled maintenance in their experience (basically no AoG time for their machine) but if you do get something, parts can be weeks or even a couple months I do wonder if the 12 yr would be slightly less for me as a low usage private guy (100hrs/yr). The machine this operator has flies north of 600/yr. Expect they might discover more on a 12yr inspection compared with a private machine. Have done some research and perhaps revised price expectations to ~$850k for a good machine (<1000hrs, recent 12 yr complete). I find the list prices on internet to be much higher than what they might sell for. Broker recently indicated to be that a machine is pending sold at $250k less than what the ask was. |
Hi,
I have being following this post with some interest. The AS341/2 Gazelle would be much cheaper to buy.. |
Originally Posted by The Punter
(Post 10925823)
Hi,
I have being following this post with some interest. The AS341/2 Gazelle would be much cheaper to buy.. EC120= VEMD FADEC low noise large cargo large passenger space fuel efficient low maintenance SA341 (SA for Sud Aviation)= none of the above +power +speed +military spec aerobatic capable Bottom line: the EC 120 will work for business the SA341 will be a great private owner project |
Hi Agile,
Rotorfun is only talking about doing 100hrs a year. To me that is Private flying not business. What is fuel burn rate in a Gazelle at 120kts and can a R66 do a 120kts? |
Well .... people are going to put their yacht to charter, their mountain ressort apartment to rent.... Eventhough they did not originally thought about it that way. That is how rich people stay rich.
Know several private owners that found it hard to reject an offer to lease out their machine for a bloc of hours just after a big AD bill came in. Yes the SA341 is a sexy performance machine for a lower price, but it is comercially marginal, that will alway mean a lot. |
Originally Posted by Agile
(Post 10926080)
different school of thought:
EC120= VEMD FADEC low noise large cargo large passenger space fuel efficient low maintenance SA341 (SA for Sud Aviation)= none of the above +power +speed +military spec aerobatic capable Bottom line: the EC 120 will work for business the SA341 will be a great private owner project |
Originally Posted by The Punter
(Post 10926477)
What is fuel burn rate in a Gazelle at 120kts and can a R66 do a 120kts?
EC120: 30 gal/hr at 120KN, no reserve range 383NM Don't know about the Gazelle. Biggest difference with the R66 is how much it can carry. With carpets, leather, full glass, autopilot and AC, it'll carry 867lb of people and baggage. A similarly equipped EC120 can carry about 750lb, and it might be hard finding one with glass and an autopilot. Adding floats consumes an additional 65lb on an R66 and 94lb on an EC120. |
Gazelle - 2.5 Kgs a min a 120 kts so 150 kg/hour.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10927244)
Gazelle - 2.5 Kgs a min a 120 kts so 150 kg/hour.
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a 341 or 342 is yards better than a 120. Yes the baggage area maybe bigger on a 120 but fill it and you cant take off as it is too heavy. Lets be honest you can buy a good YU 341 /2 for £ 300k and an ex mil one for around £ 250k an awful lot of helicopter for your money ! 342 about 40 gallons an hour
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