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-   -   What really upsets me... (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/633188-what-really-upsets-me.html)

Spunk 11th Jun 2020 18:31

What really upsets me...
 
Is there anything which really got you mad when you were watching other pilots and their obvious lack of airmanship?

Yesterday, I was just firing up our EC120 when little dumf*** in his R44 comes around the corner and passes by in close distance and parks the aircraft right in front of me (maybe 60 ft away). His wife jumps out to get the ground handling wheels from the hangar. By the time she gets back (about 1 minute later) the engine is shut down and out jumps Mr. Pilot himself, the blades still spinning at idle speed. The only one left on the controls is Mom's little Chiwawa.

"Oh boy", I hear myself saying. " You better stay here for now and don't move". Mom hands over the wheels to her hubby and act No. 2 starts (remember, those blades are still spinning). He puts on ground handling wheel No.1 and ..... sure enough, jacks up the helicopter on the right hand side.

This was the moment when I decided not to wait any longer and to give a damn about his rotorhead. I backed up and flew away.

Outwest 11th Jun 2020 20:08

Theres no cure for stupid....

LRP 11th Jun 2020 22:00


Originally Posted by Outwest (Post 10808793)
Theres no cure for stupid....

Natural selection is an effective cure.

nomorehelosforme 11th Jun 2020 23:07

It’s a shame you didn’t film it, it could have become a helpful tool for instructors and students alike on the do’s and dont’s after landing

Robbiee 12th Jun 2020 03:44

Hmm, I suppose the exceedingly large number of pilots I see on youtube who don't bother with a simple hover check kinda grinds my gears a bit. They just pick it up and yank it over in one motion,...even after the FAA issued a safety reminder.

[email protected] 12th Jun 2020 09:03


Hmm, I suppose the exceedingly large number of pilots I see on youtube who don't bother with a simple hover check kinda grinds my gears a bit. They just pick it up and yank it over in one motion,...even after the FAA issued a safety reminder.
Then they might actually have to pay attention to the manifold pressure and realise they don't have unlimited performance or a rev limiter like in their cars.

John R81 12th Jun 2020 10:33

"Yanking" the machine off the ground. One day you will do that off-airfield, to find that one skid is a little more stuck than the other and...….. over you go.

Robbiee 12th Jun 2020 14:10


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 10809141)
Then they might actually have to pay attention to the manifold pressure and realise they don't have unlimited performance or a rev limiter like in their cars.

You have a rev limiter in your car?

Mutley1013 12th Jun 2020 15:16

I can’t remember the last car I had that didn’t have a rev limiter! Probably something back in the early nineties that did not have an ECU.

Hughes500 12th Jun 2020 15:44

The walk round check that appears to be looking at it from a distance, then getting in and going
Not bothering with rundown checks so as to stop the meter's running

Bell_ringer 12th Jun 2020 18:42

Bitching and moaning about stupid mistakes most of us have made, one way or another?

B407Pilot 12th Jun 2020 18:45


Originally Posted by Spunk (Post 10808730)
Is there anything which really got you mad when you were watching other pilots and their obvious lack of airmanship?

Yesterday, I was just firing up our EC120 when little dumf*** in his R44 comes around the corner and passes by in close distance and parks the aircraft right in front of me (maybe 60 ft away). His wife jumps out to get the ground handling wheels from the hangar. By the time she gets back (about 1 minute later) the engine is shut down and out jumps Mr. Pilot himself, the blades still spinning at idle speed. The only one left on the controls is Mom's little Chiwawa.

"Oh boy", I hear myself saying. " You better stay here for now and don't move". Mom hands over the wheels to her hubby and act No. 2 starts (remember, those blades are still spinning). He puts on ground handling wheel No.1 and ..... sure enough, jacks up the helicopter on the right hand side.

This was the moment when I decided not to wait any longer and to give a damn about his rotorhead. I backed up and flew away.

So let me get this right: This post is about you being upset with the lack of airmanship and you end your post by saying you didn't give a damn about this guy and his helicopter and right next to this guy while his blade was still spinning? Oh, and don't get me wrong! He definitely lacked airmanship. But you didn't display much airmanship yourself.

SFIM 12th Jun 2020 19:58

i definitely believe that there has been a reduction in consideration and common decency over the last 23 years since i started flying.
for example people come storming in and land, or rush to takeoff next to you even if you have the rotor at low speed when either starting up and shutting down,
there is usually no attempt to get a "thumbs up" or coordinate
its not clear to me if this is a lack of knowledge, lack of situational awareness, general lack of consideration or they just dont give a s*** ??

aa777888 12th Jun 2020 21:27

Things are pretty polite around these parts. That's not to say there isn't the occasional issue, but it's the exception and not the rule.

Two's in 12th Jun 2020 21:37

Early in my flying career, while at a civilian airfield I did the pre-flight out of sequence (on a fixed wing) because I thought the battery wouldn't stand too much flap motoring. As I was finishing up, a guy came over to me, and in a very polite and respectful manner asked if I had realized I hadn't done the flap extension check (he was operating the same type). I explained why I was doing it out of sequence, and as the words came out of my mouth, realized I was well on my way to an accident report narrative. I felt chastened, but eventually appreciative that someone had bothered to share their professionalism and diligence in the service of flight safety.

So back to the original post. When we see others operating in an unsafe or unsure manner, don't walk away. Take the time out to question and confirm that things are as they seem. It takes tact and diplomacy not to come across as an asshat, but is it better that someone thought you were a busybody but maybe a learning point was made, or wait until you read the accident report and say "hey, I saw that guy doing that..."

A professional aviator is probably someone who shares the learning and experience whenever possible.

Back door 12th Jun 2020 22:18


Originally Posted by Two's in (Post 10809653)
Early in my flying career, while at a civilian airfield I did the pre-flight out of sequence (on a fixed wing) because I thought the battery wouldn't stand too much flap motoring. As I was finishing up, a guy came over to me, and in a very polite and respectful manner asked if I had realized I hadn't done the flap extension check (he was operating the same type). I explained why I was doing it out of sequence, and as the words came out of my mouth, realized I was well on my way to an accident report narrative. I felt chastened, but eventually appreciative that someone had bothered to share their professionalism and diligence in the service of flight safety.

So back to the original post. When we see others operating in an unsafe or unsure manner, don't walk away. Take the time out to question and confirm that things are as they seem. It takes tact and diplomacy not to come across as an asshat, but is it better that someone thought you were a busybody but maybe a learning point was made, or wait until you read the accident report and say "hey, I saw that guy doing that..."

A professional aviator is probably someone who shares the learning and experience whenever possible.

If there is a pprune post of the month, you would win it for sure, very well said

CGameProgrammerr 12th Jun 2020 23:21

Disembarking with spinning rotors is idiotic but I don't see how jacking up a skid would damage the rotorhead. It obviously is fine when the rotor is still, and it obviously is fine when the rotor is spinning at flight speed because slope landings and especially full-down autos (or hover autos) results is significantly greater shocks to the system. So is there some magic point where the rotor is spinning, but relatively slowly, that somehow makes the rotorhead subject to damage? If it's a reference to ground resonance, that's not an issue with Robinsons.

megan 13th Jun 2020 02:01


So let me get this right: This post is about you being upset with the lack of airmanship and you end your post by saying you didn't give a damn about this guy and his helicopter and right next to this guy while his blade was still spinning? Oh, and don't get me wrong! He definitely lacked airmanship. But you didn't display much airmanship yourself.
B407, my thoughts exactly, although I was too chicken to say it when the OP's post first appeared. His "I decided not to wait any longer and to give a damn about his rotorhead. I backed up and flew away" said it all. I wonder how he would feel if he had caused a mast bumping event that went unnoticed and a subsequent flight caused separation and deaths.

kansarasc 13th Jun 2020 02:36

His R44 didn't nave rotor brakes ? I know some R22s dont have it - the one I am training in doesn't have it but I thought all R44s has it. Why he was in such a hurry ? Full bladder ?

Bell_ringer 13th Jun 2020 05:44


Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr (Post 10809704)
Disembarking with spinning rotors is idiotic but I don't see how jacking up a skid would damage the rotorhead. It obviously is fine when the rotor is still, and it obviously is fine when the rotor is spinning at flight speed because slope landings and especially full-down autos (or hover autos) results is significantly greater shocks to the system. So is there some magic point where the rotor is spinning, but relatively slowly, that somehow makes the rotorhead subject to damage? If it's a reference to ground resonance, that's not an issue with Robinsons.

When there is a nearby aircraft waiting to take off, the downwash can do some damage to a teetering head that isn't at flight rpm.
Some pilots, particularly recreational pilots, forget this.
It isn't uncommon, I have had to politely remind (mainly Robbie) pilots to keep the RPM up on a few occasions, though not as often as suggesting they return to pick up their fuel caps.


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