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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
(Post 10672447)
Eh???
Could the "sputtering" be a bit of blade slap as he did a few tight turns? |
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Here in the US, reports say 9 people on board. Kobe and passengers on way to daughter's basketball training. Wx turned to ****.
Not a pilot and know enough to be dangerous, but trying to understand, based on speed graph above, how Sikorsky 76-B could fly to 50 knots with that many onboard? If so, that's impressive. Feedback welcome. I love learning. |
Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
(Post 10672447)
Eh???
There are seats for 14 in an S76, be it a B or not. The B has the PT-6 engines and can happily carry the full load, no cg problems, but with less than full fuel. With 5 less pax, there is plenty of fuel and no cg problems at all. |
Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
(Post 10672456)
That is a bone chilling recording.... very very tragic
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Originally Posted by malabo
(Post 10672464)
Bone-chilling? Sounded routine to me, average joe helicopter pilot driving around in wx just below VFR limits (2.5 mile vs 3 mile) for controlled airspace, hence the hold and requests for Special VFR. Well within the capability and daily norm for a helicopter. Pilot sounded competent, relaxed, knew what he was doing and to negotiate with the complex ATC for helicopter routes in that area. You guys can download the LAX helicopter chart to better follow what he was doing. EGPWS if they had it is a non-factor in that kind of flying, in fact it is a hazardous distraction.
Any powerlines in the area? |
Originally Posted by CityofFlight
(Post 10672458)
Wx turned to ****.
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Originally Posted by kenish
(Post 10672439)
I live about 80 miles/130km SE from the crash site, but the terrain and microclimates are similar. I was mountain biking and there was a low-lying fog layer about 100-200 feet thick, with a broken around 3000-5000 feet (my estimate).
Another mountain biker and IFR-rated pilot was interviewed. He was first on the crash scene and said there was very dense fog with 3-4 feet of viz. They heard the S76 just before and during impact but did not see it. However, witnesses in the general area (I know those accounts turn out inaccurate) saw the helo "falter" and "sputter", and then steeply descend. So there seemed to be good visibility elsewhere. The coastal scud in that area blows in from the west along Hwy 101 and hugs low-lying terrain. My very early speculation- they were VFR on top over a patchy ground fog layer in the canyon. A mechanical issue forced a descent into IFR and terrain. does not blow in from the west but rather the marine layer comes up Malibu Canyon from the south and usually burns off by late morning. However, this morning it was really damp unusual weather and definitely IMC conditions. The helicopter came westbound along the 101, then turned S across Agoura Rd then E where it crashed into the hillside. Without wishing to speculate, I wondered if the pilot was attempting for the Lost Hills Sheriff's Dept Helipad. Had he continued West along the 101 for another 20 seconds then turned S across Agoura Rd , he would have been over the helipad. However with 1/4 mile viz at the surface at best, it may have been difficult to spot. |
No power lines shown on map. Couple helipads nearby.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a6a457b379.png |
Does the 101 rise up along that stretch of 101 before Conejo Grade?, maybe he was trying to do a 180 as the ceiling dropped over the highway? Mountain obscuration all day out here in Vandenburg, little bird is parked.
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Not the best machine to be in doing "I follow road" in marginal VFR conditions, at low speeds the nose pitches up so high that you have very limited veiw forward and thight 180 turn is difficult.
The S-76 is minimum two pilots right? From report it looks there just one pilot.. perhaps not IFR rated very sad event 😥 |
Was the helicopter and PIC certified IFR?
From the tower transmissions it seems a tricky proposition maintaining VMC on a day like that. Not a criticism, simply asking those that know! |
Originally Posted by rotorrookie
(Post 10672504)
Not the best machine to be in doing "I follow road" in marginal VFR conditions, at low speeds the nose pitches up so high that you have very limited veiw forward and thight 180 turn is difficult.
The S-76 is minimum two pilots right? From report it looks there just one pilot.. perhaps not IFR rated very sad event 😥 |
Originally Posted by Old Dogs
(Post 10672512)
Nope, you can fly it VFR single pilot.
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Originally Posted by Sir Korsky
(Post 10672518)
and single pilot IFR
Also, you cannot fly the S-76 single pilot IFR in Canada and many other parts of the world. |
Here is the final minute of ADS-B data as posted on the FlightRadar24 blog:
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1bcbc16930.jpg |
Originally Posted by JP.Robinson
(Post 10672490)
Does the 101 rise up along that stretch of 101 before Conejo Grade?, maybe he was trying to do a 180 as the ceiling dropped over the highway? Mountain obscuration all day out here in Vandenburg, little bird is parked.
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Originally Posted by malabo
(Post 10672464)
Bone-chilling? Sounded routine to me, average joe helicopter pilot driving around in wx just below VFR limits (2.5 mile vs 3 mile) for controlled airspace, hence the hold and requests for Special VFR. Well within the capability and daily norm for a helicopter. Pilot sounded competent, relaxed, knew what he was doing and to negotiate with the complex ATC for helicopter routes in that area. You guys can download the LAX helicopter chart to better follow what he was doing. EGPWS if they had it is a non-factor in that kind of flying, in fact it is a hazardous distraction.
Wx-related acccident...not due to a "sputtering" turbine engine(s). |
Originally Posted by Sir Korsky
(Post 10672535)
really? wow !
The S-76 was certified two-pilot IFR. However, even if a helicopter was certified single-pilot IFR you cannot provide a commercial IFR service without two pilots. |
Single pilot IFR with autopilot..,
Originally Posted by Old Dogs
(Post 10672543)
There is provision to fly certain types single-pilot IFR because they were certified that way. The Bell 222 comes to mind.
The S-76 was certified two-pilot IFR. However, even if a helicopter was certified single-pilot IFR you cannot provide a commercial IFR service without two pilots. |
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