Why bother with EASA?
Recently been to a flying school in Canada and have learnt you can walk through the door with ZERO hours on a helicopter, do 100hrs plus ONE written exam and have yourself a CPL. Why are the standards so different? Are Canadian pilots better than us here in the UK? Are we better than them? Why do EASA put us through far more stringent requirements? |
One reason is that the Canadians (and the FAA) know you will get further training later in your career. EASA don't assume that and want you to know it all before you start. I don't have a big problem with that, but the implementation is the real problem - in fact it it an international joke. The ICAO limit is 150 hours, but Canada does 100 to stop people going to the US. And after all that, Canadian training (and examining) is better, having been through both systems. I know of at least two schools who get their students through the CPL checkride at 80 hours and fill in the rest with something more useful, like mountain flying or slinging. Their students are much more industry ready.
There are one or two schools in the UK who match up to them, but not many. The rule is, if you don't need EASA don't do it. Which school did you go to? |
The basic difference is the amount of pure simple frustrating bureaucracy in the UK and EASA systems as compared to the Canadian and American system.
Also...the FAA does not have to pay its own way....as we see aviation as part of the national infrastructure and support it with Tax money from the Federal Budget. |
Tax money from the Federal Budget It is a huge pot and the Federal Gummint would really like to get their mits on it for other uses but are not allowed to. A breakdown here. In EASA land they just "nickel and dime you to death". The FAA AATF is forecast at 16.3 billion for FY 2019. |
It still baffles me. I’ve just done my 14 ATPL exams, soon to finish hour building and then finally the CPL course, so will have at least 185hrs and still have no hope getting a job! Is it “easy” to convert EASA to a FAA license? |
The licence conversion is easy. Getting a work permit for the USA is impossible.200 hours TT don't help on either side of the pond or anywhere on the planet.
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In answer to the title of this post. You bother with EASA if you want a job in Europe. If you can get a Canadian working holiday visa (under 30) the license conversion is about 4000 dollars (Canadian). That's what I'd be doing if I hadn't already used my visas...
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Originally Posted by HeliHJ
(Post 10537466)
It still baffles me. I’ve just done my 14 ATPL exams, soon to finish hour building and then finally the CPL course, so will have at least 185hrs and still have no hope getting a job! Is it “easy” to convert EASA to a FAA license? Also CHC (& possibly Bristows) have been employing ab-initios in the last 6 months. |
Originally Posted by HeliMannUK
(Post 10540167)
Also CHC (& possibly Bristows) have been employing ab-initios in the last 6 months.
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Originally Posted by ApolloHeli
(Post 10540463)
Does "ab initio" mean fresh out of CPL(H) training or no licence at all?
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My question to this subject is: can I do EASA IR training in Canada for example?
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You can get a Canadian IR and transfer it. Training as required if I'm not mistaken.
Phil |
Originally Posted by paco
(Post 10564375)
You can get a Canadian IR and transfer it. Training as required if I'm not mistaken.
Phil |
It looks like there is a instructor shortage at the moment. Get your FI and you will probably find it easier to get work, worked for me (I also think it improves your pilot skills). I am an 8000 hour pilot with all FI/TRI/TRE privileges, and have been looking for a job all over Europe for a year now..... Nothing.... Unless you are a 500 hours pilot with FI and a cabri rating, willing to work 6 days a week for 1000 Euro a month, that is.. |
Hueyracer, have you tried NPAS, Babcock or SAS in the U.K? They have numerous positions and have had for some while. |
Thanks, I have contacted pretty much every operator that has advertised for positions in the past 10 months...
As I am residing in Germany, I would only be available for any touring positions (or at least positions where I can fly home every now and then). Due to my wife's job, moving is not an option (unfortunately). But it did not even get to that point.. I hardly received and feedback to the initial application... (But I must also say that I do jot hold ratings on R22/44 or cabris, which seem to be the main air frames companies looking for an FI are using these days)... |
There is a huge lack of pilots with suitable character........that‘s the fact! Having 500-1000h and not a CV with 10 changes in 5 Years career, every operator ( including air rescue) in Europe will wellcome you with open arms |
Originally Posted by hueyracer
(Post 10564628)
That must be the same myth than the "pilot shortage" I keep hearing about..
I am an 8000 hour pilot with all FI/TRI/TRE privileges, and have been looking for a job all over Europe for a year now..... Nothing.... Unless you are a 500 hours pilot with FI and a cabri rating, willing to work 6 days a week for 1000 Euro a month, that is.. |
Thought about it.... Just could not figure out how to get a work permit...
And my wife said she wasn't OK with me marrying a US girl in order to get one... Lol |
Originally Posted by hueyracer
(Post 10565047)
Thought about it.... Just could not figure out how to get a work permit...
And my wife said she wasn't OK with me marrying a US girl in order to get one... Lol ,...if our pilot shortage is real? |
Don't want to open a can of worms here...
But was told by a guy from Canada how "spoilt and arrogant" I was for asking about being "sponsored" a work permit..... He said it would show how pilots from outside Canada would "expect" to be treated like princesses.... And that-if I wanted to work on Canada-I should go over there and get myself a work permit and a Canadian license before even thinking about applying for a job.... (exaggerating his words a bit for dramatic effect). But basically, I had contacted several US companies before...the majority does not even reply to emails, and the few who did said there was nothing they could do about the work permit (I read this as "we need pilots, but we are not willing to do all the paperwork involved in helping you getting a work permit).. I understand that the companies would need to show proof that they have tried to hire local pilots, but failed to find some...? |
That about sums it up - the trouble is that some ads are worded so tightly that only one person can fill it - they are wise to that.
Phil |
Originally Posted by hueyracer
(Post 10565524)
Don't want to open a can of worms here...
But was told by a guy from Canada how "spoilt and arrogant" I was for asking about being "sponsored" a work permit..... He said it would show how pilots from outside Canada would "expect" to be treated like princesses.... And that-if I wanted to work on Canada-I should go over there and get myself a work permit and a Canadian license before even thinking about applying for a job.... (exaggerating his words a bit for dramatic effect). But basically, I had contacted several US companies before...the majority does not even reply to emails, and the few who did said there was nothing they could do about the work permit (I read this as "we need pilots, but we are not willing to do all the paperwork involved in helping you getting a work permit).. I understand that the companies would need to show proof that they have tried to hire local pilots, but failed to find some...? GO AIRLINES! |
I hear you, and I think alike....
I am for sure thinking about ditching my helicopter work and getting myself a fixed wing atp next year.. As much as I love flying helicopters (that's what I am good at-not my words)..... But I have spoken to so many companies now who all claim to be looking for pilots... Not a single one is willing to cross train or even support new pilots anyhow.... While at the same time the salaries are dropping lower and lower... (Speaking about Utility work in Africa and Europe here..) |
Have you told the operators who you are applying to just how good you are? Maybe you are just not selling yourself. Or perhaps you don't have the type ratings, visas and flexibility?
There is a shortage of qualified and experience helicopter pilots world wide but operators can only recruit pilots with the 'right to work' in the operators country. Some countries offer work visas to younger people, some countries encourage immigration of skilled workers and some countries offer temporary work visas. But if the government of the country want to restrict immigration then they make it very difficult (if not impossible) for employers to recruit foreign nationals. Some countries governments that are flexible charge extortionate amounts from the operator for the issue of a visa. So don't necessarily blame the operator. If you have the right to work in the country, the appropriate licence, qualifications and experience and they need pilots then chances are you will get a job these days. But you also need to be flexible and have a good attitude.... |
Originally Posted by Same again
(Post 10565893)
Have you told the operators who you are applying to just how good you are? Maybe you are just not selling yourself. Or perhaps you don't have the type ratings, visas and flexibility?
There is a shortage of qualified and experience helicopter pilots world wide but operators can only recruit pilots with the 'right to work' in the operators country. Some countries offer work visas to younger people, some countries encourage immigration of skilled workers and some countries offer temporary work visas. But if the government of the country want to restrict immigration then they make it very difficult (if not impossible) for employers to recruit foreign nationals. Some countries governments that are flexible charge extortionate amounts from the operator for the issue of a visa. So don't necessarily blame the operator. If you have the right to work in the country, the appropriate licence, qualifications and experience and they need pilots then chances are you will get a job these days. But you also need to be flexible and have a good attitude.... |
Originally Posted by Same again
(Post 10565893)
have a good attitude....
just think about it, if you wonder that nobody wants you....... |
Any employer just wants you to be able to do the job. Safely. Can you roll, stand and tap a fuel drum? Can you cut a couple of wires from the pump and spin the ends so you can plug into your running 206 after finding out you’re missing a canon plug? Can you night sling in the Arctic without getting all pious about a cloud and temperature? I’ve trained and tested pilots from all over the world. Training in some countries is better quality and more comprehensive than others. Some leave out off-level landings, autos, tail-rotor malfunctions and failures, confined areas, carts. EASA pilots were no better than US, Australian, or Canadian for all the extra exams they had to write. US no better than Canadian for their 150 hr cpl vs 100. Canadians in general always knew where the tail rotor was, and in a confined never confused the statistical probability of an engine failure with the certainty of a crash if you hit a wire or tree on the way in or out. Pilot shortages are engineered by regulation to protect domestic markets. EASA protects Europe, CASA Australia. Try work in Brazil, or Russia and see how welcome you are. Paco has seen both sides (btw Paco, your beloved 206 steed GBFH fell over backwards on a bad landing last month) and has pointed out how Canadian schools tailor a product for the market, and the regulator is mostly on board, except for maybe raising the bar to 125 hrs soon. I’ve seen some pretty good vertical reference and utility pilots come out of EASA with skills that would be welcome in Canada, but why expect that to be easier than a Canadian pilot going to Europe? |
Pilot shortages are engineered by regulation to protect domestic markets. EASA protects Europe, CASA Australia I also agree about the character part.... But how do you tell that from an email or a Klick on the "klick here to apply" button? Like you said, it's all about work permits and visa... If a country needs pilots, and can't find enough locals, the companies need to approach the government to allow visa to be given to "skilled workers"... I think pilots had been on the skilled workers list in the US for a few years, but were taken off around 2000? |
" Paco, your beloved 206 steed GBFH fell over backwards on a bad landing last month)"
Where did that happen? :) |
Paco: Where did that happen? |
Thanks! That machine sure gets around....
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It would appear that a certain member of EASA staff is following politicians' lead in peddling disinformation (fake news) at industry meetings.
What happened to peer group reviews of planned presentations by Authority members so that completely unfounded statements can be eliminated or corrected. These actions call into question the integrity and professionalism of all members of working groups and he should apologise for presenting such a biased and flawed view. Mars |
Originally Posted by Mars
(Post 10567173)
It would appear that a certain member of EASA staff is following politicians' lead in peddling disinformation (fake news) at industry meetings.
What happened to peer group reviews of planned presentations by Authority members so that completely unfounded statements can be eliminated or corrected. These actions call into question the integrity and professionalism of all members of working groups and he should apologise for presenting such a biased and flawed view. Mars |
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