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-   -   Sikorsky SB-1 flies for first time (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/619699-sikorsky-sb-1-flies-first-time.html)

chopper2004 21st Mar 2019 21:43

Sikorsky SB-1 flies for first time
 

Many congratulations to Sikorsky

https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2019...s-First-Flight

cheers

IFMU 21st Mar 2019 22:10

Awesome! Looks great!

The Sultan 21st Mar 2019 22:56

They had to get it into the air or risk it being a symbol of a dead end failed concept. How bad is it that even after being two years late it was too dangerous to do an in ground effect hover until now. Bell is planning to suspend funding of the 280 as it has met its goals and obtained all of the data needed to elimate the risk of a production design. At the same time senior LM management must be wondering how much more money to sink into a program that has showed no return.

pants on fire... 21st Mar 2019 23:44


Originally Posted by The Sultan (Post 10426221)
They had to get it into the air or risk it being a symbol of a dead end failed concept. How bad is it that even after being two years late it was too dangerous to do an in ground effect hover until now. Bell is planning to suspend funding of the 280 as it has met its goals and obtained all of the data needed to elimate the risk of a production design. At the same time senior LM management must be wondering how much more money to sink into a program that has showed no return.

I got very confused for a moment there, inadvertently assuming the old Sultana was commenting on the Bell 525.

heli1 22nd Mar 2019 04:08

No info n duration of first flight ....joy selected video clips and no engagement of the pusher pro pulsed .Looks like still a way to go.

Bell_ringer 22nd Mar 2019 06:08

Mostly underwhelming.
You can almost hear the accountants working out how deep the hole is going to be on this one.

IFMU 22nd Mar 2019 10:57


Originally Posted by heli1 (Post 10426369)
No info n duration of first flight ....joy selected video clips and no engagement of the pusher pro pulsed .Looks like still a way to go.

First flight of the X2 was less than 30 minutes. Knowing Sikorsky test they have a build up plan and they will follow it. I don't think Sultana's jibes will change the pace at all. X2 flew 3 or 4 flights without the prop.
At least they didn't have any of that silly animation that some Sikorsky people seem so fond of.

Lonewolf_50 22nd Mar 2019 12:18

Sultan, what do you mean by this?

Bell is planning to suspend funding of the 280 as it has met its goals and obtained all of the data needed to elimate the risk of a production design.
Are you suggesting that Bell is currently in a position to go into the LRIP stage?

CTR 22nd Mar 2019 14:21

Now the Competition can Commence!
 
Now there can finally be a competition between FVL demonstrators. Sultan exaggerated the Defiant schedule delay. First Flight was per DOD contract supposed to occur in the fall of 2017. So the Defiant is approximately 16 months late.

The hurdle for the SB>1 team now is completing all the FVL Key Performance Parameters by the end of this year, as required in the DOD contract. Based on the Sikorsky Raider still not having completed itís flight test goals, there may not be adequate time for the Defiant. Especially if any more unpredicted problems occur.

Of of course the Army can always change the rules of the competition to give the Defiant a chance to catch up. Not very fair to the people at Bell and suppliers that busted their tails to keep their promises.

I predict a government announcement in the next couple months stating the Defiant will be given additional time to catch up with the Valor. The only question is how much time.




IFMU 22nd Mar 2019 21:32

Nice note from Bell Flight congratulating the Defiant team on LinkedIn. Interesting that one of the Bell Flight guys is trashing the Valor and saying Defiant is the way to go. What is up with that?

SASless 23rd Mar 2019 00:45

I think back to the days of the Sikorsky ABC and XV-15 competition back in the 1980's.....each outfit had a lot to win or lose upon how the competition turned out.

Odd that Sultan continues bashing anything/everything Sikorsky but then we are used to his standard of posts.

CTR 23rd Mar 2019 01:15

Experience of a Migrant Aerospace Engineer
 
Sultan has not had the experience of working for multiple competitors in his career. Having worked for the big three plus multiple suppliers I developed an understanding that we are all kindred engineers. I never want anyone to lose a contract. Since it inevitably means someone will lose their job.

PlasticCabDriver 23rd Mar 2019 09:23


Is it just me of does it remind anyone else of Toothless from How to Train Your Dragon?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a6453990d.jpeg

CTR 23rd Mar 2019 16:09

Toothless Dragon or Defiant?
 

Bell_ringer 23rd Mar 2019 16:24


Originally Posted by CTR (Post 10427747)
It is not just you!

You are both wrong, it's the hunt for red October.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6416bbc75.jpeg

SplineDrive 23rd Mar 2019 16:47


Originally Posted by CTR (Post 10427260)
Sultan has not had the experience of working for multiple competitors in his career. Having worked for the big three plus multiple suppliers I developed an understanding that we are all kindred engineers. I never want anyone to lose a contract. Since it inevitably means someone will lose their job.

I'm with you... worked for several OEMs and closely with engineers from all three large US OEMs and some non-US helo OEMs. My primary takeaway from my career is all vertical take off aircraft are pretty terrible in some way :-) There's no perfect solution that works for every mission. So I'm not surprised some Bell Flight staff might think the "grass is greener" on SB>1 vs V-280. Some Sikorsky staff might say the same thing, based on the details they know about their solution and perhaps somewhat ignorant of what they don't know about the other.

SASless 23rd Mar 2019 18:32

Did Sikorsky hire some British Aeronautical Design Engineers to work on this project?:}

CTR 23rd Mar 2019 19:08

Seriously Doubt Post Was From ďBell Flight GuyĒ
 

Originally Posted by IFMU (Post 10427138)
Nice note from Bell Flight congratulating the Defiant team on LinkedIn. Interesting that one of the Bell Flight guys is trashing the Valor and saying Defiant is the way to go. What is up with that?

I donít use LinkedIn since it turned into another Facebook. Which I donít bother with either.

But it I seriously doubt the post was from a Bell employee. How would you ever validate the individualís claim? Any real employee could lose their job posting any information about the V-280, regardless if it was good or bad.

My guess is the post is from an old V-22 Osprey naysayer who has problems accepting the aircraftís success.

Besides, currently how could anyone claim which aircraft is better? The Defiant has barely flown, and the Radier hasnít completed as much envelope as the Valor. Not much information to base claims of superiority on for either aircraft. Other than maturity of tilt rotor technology and lower risk of development.



Evalu8ter 23rd Mar 2019 21:45

CTR - well said. I thought it was classy from Bell to congratulate their competitors. Vertical lift is hard to do - we in the industry "get" that. Bell and Sikorsky/Boeing have taken contrasting views of how to approach the Army's Cap Set 3. Sikorsky built on the "what could have been" ABC, whereas Bell have leveraged their XV-15 / V-22 experience for the V-280. The latter seems to be going well; Defiant has a lot of work to do to catch up, but a few months should mean nothing to the US Army for a platform that will be decades in service. Inevitably, a loss will effect the losing team in terms of jobs and investment. Perhaps FARA opens up the chances of "everyone winning"; V-280 replacing UH-60 and a derivative of the S-92 Raider fulfilling FARA - effectively replacing the loss of the OH-58 and the missed opportunity of the RAH-66.

IFMU 24th Mar 2019 14:19


Originally Posted by CTR (Post 10427845)
I donít use LinkedIn since it turned into another Facebook. Which I donít bother with either.

But it I seriously doubt the post was from a Bell employee. How would you ever validate the individualís claim? Any real employee could lose their job posting any information about the V-280, regardless if it was good or bad.
My guess is the post is from an old V-22 Osprey naysayer who has problems accepting the aircraftís success.
Besides, currently how could anyone claim which aircraft is better? The Defiant has barely flown, and the Raider hasnít completed as much envelope as the Valor. Not much information to base claims of superiority on for either aircraft. Other than maturity of tilt rotor technology and lower risk of development.

Apparently he is a disgruntled ex-employee of Bell. So, he has an axe to grind.
I've never been on facebook but I joined LinkedIn when Sikorsky closed Schweizer and I had to decide where I was going next. I agree a lot of it is non-professional.


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