SAR paramedic recruitment advice 2018
 

hi

im wondering if someone can help, im currently a hcpc paramedic and looking at bristows new advertisement for SAR winch paramedic in the uk.

i was just wondering if anyone can shed some light on what the recruitment process is like and maybe some tips here an there, or whether you are currently a serving winchmen with bristow
id be glad to hear from you about what the job actually entails.

hope to hear from some of you soon

many thanks

para

You should visit your nearest Bristow SAR base and speak with the crews there. If you are in London that would be Lydd Kent. They would be happy to show you around and have a chat.

Basically doing what your are doing now but on the back of a boat, the side of a mountain or in the back of a noisy helicopter - often in quite difficult conditions.

Plus you need to be comfortable in the water, even in the dark and enjoy trusting your life to a piece of wire less than 1 cm thick.

Good luck:ok:

There is a looming demographic gap for UK SAR paramedics since the posts have traditionally been filled by ex-mil winchpersons but there is no training pipeline for those any more.

The advantages that the mil guys and girls had was that they often had other mil aviation backgrounds - support helicopters, Nimrods etc and went through a rigorous selection and training process (which many failed) so that only the best got through. That quality was evident when the paramedic training was introduced early 2000s and all but a few lapped it up and went onto attain their paramedic status.

There has long been an argument that training an existing paramedic to become a winchperson must be cheaper - the problem is the length of training required to be safe and effective on the wire and as part of a crew - those hundreds or thousands of hours of previous aviation and military exposure to risk can't be reproduced or replicated in a few short hours of wet and deck winching.

I had thought that part of the UKSAR contract was to set up a proper training school to ensure continuity for SAR rearcrew and perhaps the latest adverts are a sign that this might be happening - it's success will very much depend on the quality of the individuals they recruit and the rigour of the training.

Don't know if there is a big enough budget to achieve what is required within the current contract.......and they would probably have to up the salary by £20K to tempt those still left in the mil to jump ship.........

"Don't know if there is a big enough budget to achieve what is required within the current contract.......and they would probably have to up the salary by £20K to tempt those still left in the mil to jump ship."

Just out of interest, what is the approximate starting salary for a SAR paramedic? I'd expect it to be significantly more than the current NHS Band 6 Paramedic salary that, when tagged onto the standard 25% unsocial hours allowance can top out at just over £46K per year.

A good bit less than that..(I can't remember if the paramedic pay takes them a little over £40K but if it does, it isn't by much)...and given than many were on around £50K when they were in the mil it was a step down, made more unpalatable when the pilots (captains) were given over £90K.

The difference is due to licences - or lack of them for the rearcrew - pilots are licensed and have market rates (primarily N Sea salaries at the time of the contract) and unions - the rearcrew have no equivalent in CAA/EASA land despite being the ones who do all the dirty and dangerous work in SAR.

There has been talk of creating a licencing system for rearcrew for many years and the CAA inspector is a fan but without industry pressure it won't happen.

The flip side is that many do less than 8 shifts a month, know for a long time in advance when they will be working and get a big cash bonus if they have to pick up an extra shift.

Using PA Scales for 2017-18, they start at £45316. Master Aircrew (WO1) could progress to Level 20 which is £64717. Presumably, LtCdr Observer could progress to the top at £81943. :cool: So that is the range of pay that military rearcrew would have been getting if there was still MilSAR in 2017/18. These are maybe about £2k pa higher than the scales when the contract started changing over.

Crab has mentioned CivSAR pay just breaking through £40k. A figure was mentioned to me back in 2015 of £42k which may have been the top end (and therefore not for entrants).

You can perhaps see why my first question to the previous Bristow UK SAR Director when I first met her in 2015 was "Do you think you're paying your rearcrew enough?"

Then there is the licensing issue. The current CAA regime creates the category "SAR Technical Crew". That looks good in the pages of CAP 999 but aspects of the regime appear not to have the power behind it to create a successor competence that is appropriate for this service. That is why, writing elsewhere, I coined the term "Trolley dollies in drysuits" to describe the authority's approach. The obvious way ahead is take the world-leading step of making SAR Technical Crew a licensed aviation trade. A significant number of highly experienced SAR professionals believe in that approach although many of them are not saying it out loud since it will cost their employers a few pennies. It falls to those without a glittering aviation career to protect to sound off about these unmentionables. :rolleyes:

(Incoming! :eek:)

Sorry if that muddies the waters for you para232 but even the best job in the world can be made better. :ok:

SAR winchmen, paramedics, trauma teams, mountain rescuers, firemen et al...have never been properly remunerated for laying their lives on the line. A conundrum indeed.

Interesting read, basically you can be based anywhere in the UK and salary not stated. Have heard probably low 30's initially??
Such a dilemma, potentially a 10K paycut.

Ohh this is very interesting, would probably jump ship from the NHS if I was successful.

Thanks people

You can start your training by waking yourself up at 2am and driving around in the hosing rain staring out of the window for a few hours - a good simulation of a night search (of which you will do plenty). Or, wake up at 2am, have a coffee and prepare a load of kit then try to go back to bed (good simulation of a cancelled night job) :)

Sadly, there is nothing to prepare you for the 200 -mile transit out into the Atlantic, opening the cabin door to look at the 30 -50 ft waves and the boat you are going to be winched down to pitching, rolling and heaving in a very alarming fashion - how are you with motion sickness by the way?

I wouldn't want to be accused of sugar-coating it - it probably is the best job in the world but it takes balls of steel. Just glad I always got to be up the front in the warm and generally dry cockpit.

Good luck:ok:

Hedski - I did say 'generally dry' ie it was dry when it wasn't raining:)

The cadetship stuff makes for interesting reading - lots of emphasis on physical fitness despite there being no requirement for existing technical crew to demonstrate that level of fitness nor even hold a class 2 medical............eyesight requirements anyone?

The shorthand seems to be 'We'll pay you as little as we think we can get away with and we'll post you where we like during your training - just don't expect anywhere down South until you have a few years under your belt'.

They could just pay a 3rd party provider to select and train new technical crew..............but they'll still have to do something about the salary....

isit right theres only 4 vacancies? it says 4 cadetships? that seems very low, or isit 4 groups? therel be a lot of competition if theres only 4 vaccancies.

I was really looking forward to this opportunity. The job sounds absolutely fantastic.
I'm in current paramedic practice, ex Fleet Air Arm flight deck crew, I also hold a pilots license and class 1 medical. So a solid aviation background.
But if its £25,000 or even £30,000 I can't justify it. Paramedics on the road are on £45,000 Inc unsocial hours (top) , it would be to much of a pay cut.
Just says salary to be discussed?? Surely the pay should be at least the equivalent


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I believe you'll see a max of £35k, even after training until you can work your way up the pay spine. I gather they were warned about low salary but ignored the advice.

Apparently some AA charities are looking after their own paramedic contracts around the £50K mark so even more competition.

Morning all,

First post so be gentle! It mentions on the pack...

'DO NOT START the application process if you are unwilling to undertake and pass (at your own expense) the PPL(H) Meteorology and Navigation exams prior to attendance at Selection.'

What would the cost of this be any ideas been phoning around a few places and pretty much got chinned off!

Could you recommend anyone? Cobham perchance?

Snakepit - well that is where the top-drawer SAR QHCIs not employed in UKSAR are:):ok:

Asking candidates to undertake certain exams at their own expense prior to start. It really is Ryanair with blades. Absolute cheek

The contract is due to start transitioning out in 2023 and runs through to 2026 but can be extended. The paramedic qualification changes in 2021 and there may be some pressure to get bums on seats, sorry, ar5es hanging out the door, before that takes effect.

The previous supply is in the course of drying up, market forces are against them, sub-contractors are expensive, alternative jobs are on land or in interesting places with warmer water, ...

It may require some luck to keep this on the rails.

Hi, what changes are expected in 2012

From the 1st Sept 2021 (I am assuming this is what you mean't Piper and not 2012?) any paramedic course must teach to level 6 (bachelor degree). Current courses are at L5 (Foundation degree or Cert of Higher Ed). This only affects students starting new courses from 1st Sept onward. All older courses will lose the approval to teach paramedics. There is no effect on those already on the register.

As I understand it, for existing paramedics no change - but the only route to getting a paramedic qual after 2021 will be through the degree course rather than doing on the job training as a technician.

Hedski - agreed but it's all about the costs and downloading as much risk and cost to the applicant rather than the company

Yeah sorry 2021, finger problem. Lol
Thanks.

Hey Crab, what if the navy guys were right all along about it just being posh hovering? :E
They could swap the salaries around between the front and rear seats and they'd get all the paramedics they ever dreamed of. :rolleyes:

Cost of this should not be significant - if it's PPLH (very different story if it's CPLH) - for anyone with a decent level of school education. Buy the books and self study then bung an instructor a few quid for a couple of hours revision and you should be fine.

yes, you can tell the head guys involved in the bid were pilots and not rearcrew.........They could have swopped 10 -15K from front to rear and still had full take-up of all the positions. I'm amazed any of the RN Observers went across.

Probably just curiosity. :rolleyes:

What they should be doing is offering sponsorship through paramedic training for those who can pass a basic rearcrew selection process - then pay them as they train using the summer holidays as opportunities to send them to SAR flights to gain experience in the aviation role.

That way at the end of the process they have suitable candidates with both paramedic and flying experience - not rocket science but takes planning.

How many of the current SAR Paramedic winchmen are actually on £53,200?

I,m quite surprised by the salary package. Even after 5 years, successful cadetship, staff salaries will still be falling short of NHS paramedics. I can see that the job role will be attractive to many, but unlikely to lure experienced HEMS or HART paramedics who arguably have more of a similar skill set, having also many years of paramedic experience.
The starting salary is only likely to attract more junior paramedics on Band 5 salaries with limited experience. Still an awesome job though.