Originally Posted by aterpster
(Post 10081072)
Also, since they fly "canned" routes they should have safe emergency landing sites mapped out along the tour route.
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Originally Posted by WillyPete
(Post 10080867)
Does this screen grab look like the front stbd float was not inflated or at least semi-detached?
Originally Posted by helonorth
(Post 10081380)
Still in the process of inflating? Later pictures show it fully inflated.
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10081413)
Some shots of the floats hours later in this NTSB tweet:
https://twitter.com/NTSB_Newsroom/st...56722574991360 |
Originally Posted by rotornut
(Post 10081228)
I understand from float plane pilots that it's very difficult to accurately judge your height when landing on water, more so when it's dark.
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I know someone who's son was killed in a floatplane on a lake. Apparently he misjudged his height over the water when making a turn and the wing tip hit the water and the plane crashed into the lake.
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Originally Posted by rotornut
(Post 10081228)
He didn't flare so I agree that he probably misjudged his altitude over the water. I understand from float plane pilots that it's very difficult to accurately judge your height when landing on water, more so when it's dark.
A RAD ALT is extremely useful in these situations - say, set the alert at 10 feet or so - just so that you don't fly straight into the water without a flare. Must be incredibly difficult in an autorotation |
And why would five people be passengers on a 'photo' flight? It turns out that Manhattan tourist helo flights on Sunday have been banned by local authorities since 2016.
So, the scam (in New York City no less, I'm shocked I tell you :eek:) is to call the flight a photo flight and operate from New Jersey. Since folks on a photo flight are 'journalists' you can't restrict their First Amendment rights now can you? Anyway, one of the folks was a journalist but the others were tourists and helo company employees. From one of the local tabloids: The helicopters tours have been a concern for years, with most complaints revolving around noise caused by the low-flying aircrafts. In February 2016, Mayor de Blasio announced a deal he said would reduce helicopter tours from the Downtown Manhattan heliport around the city by 50% — and eliminate them altogether on Sundays. But the deal was riddled with loopholes that have not significantly reduced chopper flights around the city, according to John Dellaportas, president of Stop The Chop NY NJ, which has pressed for measures against the sightseeing tours for years. The deal only applied to the heliport near Wall Street operated by the city’s Economic Development Corporation. Helicopter operators are able to dodge the regulations by marketing their flights as professional photography tours and by taking off from New Jersey, Dellaportas said. |
When I was still flying we gave “at the helicopter” safety briefings in addition to the video when available... then we would seat the pax, close the doors and ask pax at the doors inside to demonstrate opening from inside... there would be a look down, some fiddling then a sheepish look back up with the door still closed. 50% of the time...
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Originally Posted by Airbubba
(Post 10081464)
And why would five people be passengers on a 'photo' flight? It turns out that Manhattan tourist helo flights on Sunday have been banned by local authorities since 2016.
So, the scam (in New York City no less, I'm shocked I tell you :eek:) is to call the flight a photo flight and operate from New Jersey. Since folks on a photo flight are 'journalists' you can't restrict their First Amendment rights now can you? Anyway, one of the folks was a journalist but the others were tourists and helo company employees. From one of the local tabloids: Journalist, tourists among dead in East River helicopter crash - NY Daily News Instead they strapped everyone into the aircraft without adequate training to extricate themselves, as evidenced by everyone being dead except for the pilot. I hope the company burns for this. |
The industry will burn for this. And all that money vacuumed out by the legal settlements will cripple sightseeing helicopter operations specifically and manufacturers and operators generally. The self-funded career will die because of nowhere to build time (looking at all you EASA guys that have been relying on flying tours here to build time).
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Originally Posted by malabo
(Post 10081489)
The industry will burn for this. And all that money vacuumed out by the legal settlements will cripple sightseeing helicopter operations specifically and manufacturers and operators generally. The self-funded career will die because of nowhere to build time (looking at all you EASA guys that have been relying on flying tours here to build time).
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So this could all be down to a poorly designed FCL then...
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Originally Posted by chopjock
(Post 10081493)
So this could all be down to a poorly designed FCL then...
The real cause of the deaths are the people being unable to escape from the cabin underwater. |
And we are back to cold water shock.
Immersion suits and air bottles (STASS or equivalent) would at least have given them a fighting chance. Even being shown a video of how to escape underwater would have better than nothing. Planned flight over water out of auto range of land with water temp less than 5 degrees......... |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10081506)
Immersion suits and air bottles (STASS or equivalent) would at least have given them a fighting chance. |
Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli
(Post 10081530)
and i got ******* chastised in the Pappillon thread for suggesting flame retardant overalls and flight helmets.
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Physical the passengers seemed to be good in shape. One a 26 year old fire fighter. So definitely the harness release was a mayor factor.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/n...pgtype=article |
I doubt they are using these to connect either end of the safety tether to the floor hard points or the ring on the harness located between the shoulder blades. Static line hookup hardware like these would be a bad choice underwater or for a tour customer.
You need to push the large button to slide the hook open . . . and it’s a two handed excercise normally. Makes no sense in a tour chopper. Anyone know what hardware they normally use ? https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/94/64/62/8210c710.jpg |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10081506)
And we are back to cold water shock.
Immersion suits and air bottles (STASS or equivalent) would at least have given them a fighting chance. Even being shown a video of how to escape underwater would have better than nothing. Planned flight over water out of auto range of land with water temp less than 5 degrees......... The video shows the fuselage partially submerging on first contact with the water (floats underwater), then a fairly quick roll-over. With the doors off, that cabin would have filled with frigid water very quickly. I wonder if a doors-closed flight might have given them a little more time. I've done photo shoots (real ones) in a harness with doors off, but never over water at those temps. |
Crab,
How far in advance would you have the customer book the flight....and the necessary training to use all that gear? Surely you don”t think it fine to hand a passenger a PFD and Puff Bottle...as they head out the door to the aircraft do you?
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10081506)
And we are back to cold water shock.
Immersion suits and air bottles (STASS or equivalent) would at least have given them a fighting chance. Even being shown a video of how to escape underwater would have better than nothing. Planned flight over water out of auto range of land with water temp less than 5 degrees......... |
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