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-   -   AS350 swashplate bearing HOT (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/597538-as350-swashplate-bearing-hot.html)

Mutant Mthfr 27th Jul 2017 01:34

AS350 swashplate bearing HOT
 
My chief pilot insists that my colleagues and I continue to operate a squirrel on a rescue contract with the swashplate bearing becoming too hot to hold your hand on after a 20min flight.

What would you do?

Evil Twin 27th Jul 2017 02:23

Say no, not until it has been checked and cleared by maintenance

Frying Pan 27th Jul 2017 03:13

Mutant,

Last week you complained that your CP wanted you to fly with a caution light on in the B206! Now the CP's asking you to fly with a hot swashplate! You need to stand up and be counted and not fly. At least can you name the company so that me and my family never go near your operation.

Cheers FP.

John R81 27th Jul 2017 07:43


Originally Posted by Frying Pan (Post 9843427)
Mutant,

Last week you complained that your CP wanted you to fly with a caution light on in the B206! Now the CP's asking you to fly with a hot swashplate! You need to stand up and be counted and not fly. At least can you name the company so that me and my family never go near your operation.

Cheers FP.



Give him the keys, then casually ask if his life insurance is up-to-date and his affairs are in order.

icedriver 27th Jul 2017 07:44

What next? My boss wants me to fly a 225 with an MGB chip light?

OvertHawk 27th Jul 2017 08:07

You know what you should do.

You are a Professional Pilot - Do the right thing.

Record the defect in the tech log - and then see if the engineers are happy to sign it off as not a problem. It's one thing to tell you it's ok - but make them put their money where their mouth is and write it down.

If you allow that situation to continue without intervening or, if necessary, reporting it to the authorities then you may well end up in the horrible position of sitting reading the accident report and having to acknowledge that you could - and should - have prevented it.

Yes - you might suffer as a result of doing the right thing, but others may suffer if you do not.

gulliBell 27th Jul 2017 11:45


Originally Posted by OvertHawk (Post 9843551)
...Record the defect in the tech log...

Exactly. I'm surprised the question was asked in the first place.

AAKEE 27th Jul 2017 16:09


Exactly. I'm surprised the question was asked in the first place.
All good answers to a question that should not have been neded to ask.
Im sure 'mutant' had'nt asked if he did'nt need to.

gulliBell 28th Jul 2017 14:20

It is prudent to discuss a snag defect item with the maintenance controller before writing it in the tech log. Only because it offers a degree of protection against trigger-happy management all too keen to fire a pilot for putting a defect in the book. I got fired once for writing a defect in the book, but they had to un-fire me once the maintenance controller admitted to the bosses that I discussed the problem with him first.

OvertHawk 28th Jul 2017 15:24

I will certainly discuss with the engineering department before I write things in the book but only for the purpose of correctly understanding the nature of the defect so that I can accurately record it.

The concept of asking permission before writing up snags is preposterous. And the suggestion that you would / could not write up a defect if "Management" told you not to is... Criminal.

OH

brett s 28th Jul 2017 18:36

It may be hard to do what's right when your job is on the line, but what's your life worth? What about everyone else?

That's not the sort of operator I would want to keep working for anyways.

Been there, done that, got fired - in this case I was the A&P too.

palacio802 28th Jul 2017 21:56

I quite understand your situation. I'm 41 and I was "retired" 5 years ago from the Air Force after recurrent complaints about the safety policy in my unit. Now, I have the civilian licences but, nobody wants to hire a pilot with a "complaining" record here. You know. 2000+ hrs and you are not flying? something must be wrong with you...

First thing I thought after loosing my job was that I had ruined my life. Then, a helicopter in my ex-squadron crashed. 4 death. One year after this, another mishap. Three death. I know that probably I won't fly a helicopter any more. So sad. But I'm alive.

It's a difficult decission but perhaps my story can help you. Regards.

SASless 29th Jul 2017 02:46

I would find another company to work for...Life is short enough without putting up with crap maintenance and dangerous management practices.

gulliBell 29th Jul 2017 04:07


Originally Posted by TangoAlphad (Post 9845423)
Fired for tech'ing it?....

Yep...there was a memo from management that pilots weren't to write any defects in the tech log. Pilots had to report defects to the maintenance engineer, and the maintenance engineer would make the entry.

Downupside 29th Jul 2017 05:48

Hi, pardon my ignorance, but what is the definition of a hot swashplate? And your hands temperature acceptance level?
Go to maintenance, let them fix or clear this, give them credit/trust for what they do and recommend. full stop. Anything else is speculation beyond my/your area of responsibility.
My 2cts
Kami

Efirmovich 29th Jul 2017 06:31


Originally Posted by Downupside (Post 9845595)
Hi, pardon my ignorance, but what is the definition of a hot swashplate? And your hands temperature acceptance level?
Go to maintenance, let them fix or clear this, give them credit/trust for what they do and recommend. full stop. Anything else is speculation beyond my/your area of responsibility.
My 2cts
Kami


Well said !! So much s**t talked on here,,, what do you expect when you are setting fire to 160Ltr/Hr of jet A1, stone cold ??
A brew is hot to the touch but that doesn't make it undrinkable ! If you are concerned you could get the engineer to measure the temp accurately and let him decide or alternatively go down the pub and talk to some bloke who used to service lawn mowers and knows everything ! :ugh:


E.

Nubian 29th Jul 2017 08:01


Originally Posted by Efirmovich (Post 9845603)
So much s**t talked on here,,, what do you expect when you are setting fire to 160Ltr/Hr of jet A1, stone cold ?? E.

Your contribution is just what you say..... s**t!


To the OP:
When it comes down to a maintenance issue, it is not up to the CP to decide what goes or not, but the DOM

riff_raff 29th Jul 2017 10:18


Originally Posted by Downupside (Post 9845595)
Hi, pardon my ignorance, but what is the definition of a hot swashplate? And your hands temperature acceptance level?
Go to maintenance, let them fix or clear this, give them credit/trust for what they do and recommend. full stop. Anything else is speculation beyond my/your area of responsibility.
My 2cts
Kami

Good point. A metal bearing surface at 180degF would be too hot to touch for most people. Yet it could easily still be within acceptable operating limits for the swash plate system. Ask your maintenance people to look into it.

JohnDixson 29th Jul 2017 15:24

Downupsides point is well taken.

Swashplate bearing temperature in normal conditions may vary according to design.

Info on the one monitoring system I have access to ( but it is the original 92 manual, so subject to later changes ), is as follows. The bearing monitor system provides a caution " S/P Temp Detect " caution when the bearing temp is 100F over ambient. EP is to land as soon as practical. The system also has a "S/P Temp Limit " warning, triggered by a bearing temp ( straight, raw temp ) of 300F, and the EP is to land as soon as possible.

Not to restart old discussions, but this is a single point failure mode that has proven to be susceptible to Mfgr/QA error.

rotorfan 29th Jul 2017 17:25

I agree with riff_raff, and would even modify his statement by saying 180degF would be too hot for anyone to touch.

I work on high precision machining equipment for my business. While touring a machine with a new laser thermometer in hand, I was checking the temps of all sorts of mechanisms. I was particularly interested in the hydraulic system, knowing from too many experiences that pumps and valves had inflicted pain. What's this? Only 125degF (52C) hurt enough that I couldn't touch it for 2 seconds without yanking my hand away. I was fascinated to realize how little above our body temperature was the threshold of pain. It's also interesting that poking my finger in a cuppajoe might feel hot, though it might not be as hot as I prefer to drink it.

As riff_raff says, it may seem quite hot to our touch, and yet nothing to tough steel. It needs to be actually measured and then investigated. Feeling hot to the touch could mean 130 or 530, just irrelevant.


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