601:
In my experience - very few PPL's stay current with autos let alone EOL's.
An EOL for a private owner is dodgy financial territory.

Islandlad:

You may have a point. I couldn't possibly confirm the skid clearance but there is a slim possibility she landed on top of the bushes, the rotors were stopped and she then settled as the bushes gave way. It would answer my query about the blades being intact too.

A water landing - double edged sword in this particular instance. Better surface to land on by far - as it is flat and obstruction free, thus minimising the risk to life of any impact damage during the auto/EOL. BUT what happens then?

Without flot bags and with a cabin full of people, the cab is going to flip or sink very very quickly and some or all of the occupants could get trapped.

Hence - given the opportunity - current teaching in the dunker is to jettison doors just prior to impact (before the door frames buckle - jamming the door shut).
Hope this helps.

I know this particular area well, having flown past it dozens if not hundreds of times. It is covered with very dense, low scrubby trees. It looks to me like the pilot has landed vertically (either under power or in auto) on the tree tops and they have supported the weight of the helicopter as they have collapsed beneath it. I don't believe he has executed a perfect zero speed auto to a helicopter sized hole in the trees. I'm very skeptical about the helicopter autorotating from an overwater position all the way to the landing site. Depending on exactly where it occurred he would have been at a maximum altitude of 500' or 1000' in order to stay below the control zone step. The pilot said he had 30-35 seconds to land the aircraft, and also mentioned a loss of transmission. I'm guessing he flew under power back across the coast and maybe then entered auto. He seemed to choose his words very carefully and I don't believe he ever actually used the words "engine failure". Just my opinion of course and I'm certainly not having a go at the pilot.

Mk6 - I don't think anyone suggested he managed to land in a small hole - it seems quite clear that he made the hole - but a zero speed EOL (if it was a true EOL) is still not an easy technique, especially with a low inertia rotor system.

Islandlad - yes, it looks like it landed and sank into the bushes - again very lucky because any forward or lateral speed could have cause the skids to catch and roll the aircraft over.

As TC says, water landings are best left to aircraft with boat shaped hulls (Sea King for example) or ones with flot gear (or proper floats) - height judgement again, without a rad alt, is tricky over the water so it is easy to flare too high and run out of Nr during the cushion phase when you realise there is a long way to go to the water.

601 - how many PPLHs practice EOLs in their own helicopters after they have their licences?????

"how many PPLHs practice EOLs in their own helicopters after they have their licences?"

I bet it is a number close to zero! Is it even required in any jurisdiction's PPL(H) flight test?

Krypton,

This is a phenomena spreading through the industry from end to end. PPL and mil are now steering ever further from EOL practice for a variety of reasons, mostly down to cost if there is a small risk of screwing it up.

The fraternity is therefore is in danger of its skill set being erroded.

The jury is STILL out with the Galsgow police helicopter going thru the roof of the Clutha public house several years ago.

The AAIB don't really know what happened between engine(s) out and hitting the rooftop but those who knew him and his training background recognise that EOL's didn't factor in ot much.

How many people on here - across the world - practice true EOL's to the deck?

Funny isn't it. A flying machine designed NOT to glide is being flown more and more by pilots who know NOT what to do at the end of the "glide".

All they ever see is the recovery to the hover, and away to fly another day.

Weird world of nanny state we live in.

I'd think overall, about as many as fixed wing pilots who get to practice glide approaches to a landing in an airliner.....

Simulator EOL practice for the lucky ones.

My previous insurance policy specifically forbade solo autos, let alone EOLs.

When I used to fly single eng in Canada years ago.
All of our practice outos were to the ground ...47, 206, 206l, 350 and 205.
The good old daze.

Curious to the difference between an EOL and an auto? Does EOL mean actually shutting down the engine? You'd have to be insane to do that imo. Or do you mean a full-down auto to an actual landing, as opposed to a power recovery auto?

fwiw, in the US at least, for a PPL-H you need to demonstrate competence flying an auto, but not a full down. That is needed for CFI-H (not even needed for CPL-H).

Personally I was lucky to have an instructor for a time who was happy to do full-downs but since I stopped flying with him, I have not done one. Most US schools etc REALLY do not want to do them. The outfit I currently fly helis with has one instructor (their chief pilot) who is willing to do them, though I haven't flown with him.

I regret it, because they're a real challenge and a lot of fun. But there it is.

Fairly standard in Oz. Including 50ft/50kt EOLs for currency if you have a low level endorsement.

Squeaks: kindly expand on your statement would you?
Is this PPL's, instructors, who does this? You are right on the edge of the dead mans curve @ 50/50. I challenge any PPL to survive this without trashing the cab.

50' 50kt and lined up on finals to a nice smooth paved runway?

In the AAC, we used to do EOLs all the time with students, in Gazelles, with the engine at Ground Idle. Once committed to a landing there was never any option to go to Flight Idle and fly away, so one day I shut it down completely. Guess I must have been insane.

Mighty Gem,

Dead on. My instructor in Advanced Rotary only arrived at Wallop with an EOL to the ground, sometimes zero speed, always in various speed/height configurations. Same with various QHIs on Squadrons, although not all.

NEO

I wish! Over the grass and following a flight path that would be done when low level, not into wind, but with an area to aim for when the throttle is chopped.

OK, not for PPLs but that wasn't seen as the question. CPL and ATPL stuff, we're the ones with the low level endorsements flying low level here on fires, filming, sling loads, power line patrols, etc etc.

I'm surprised that nobody has brought up the relative risks of full downs in low inertia ships, i.e. Robinsons, vs. everything else.

In the Robinson risk vs. reward department, yeah the landing might not be pretty given the average private or commercial U.S. certificate holder almost certainly has never done a single full down in a Robinson, but at least everyone has a good chance of walking away. Trade that against how many Robinsons do you want to write off in training until people can do the full down part well?

Wait, don't answer that last part, because some wag is going to say "All of them, please!" ;)

https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watc...nkstown/#page1

I watched the video but cannot post a direct link to it----but someone needs to go back to basic long line class..... this is pretty sad.

Full video here for those with FB:

https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney...6875899003205/

Gordy, this has been discussed since post 37 :ok:

Senior Pilot

I think you mis-understood my post. I think the original pilot did an excellent job of getting the aircraft on the ground with no injuries.

My post was referring to the pilot of the recovery team slinging the R-44. He had the aircraft swinging everywhere and never actually got the thing fully on the trailer. The only post that talked about that was number 38, all the rest are discussing EOLs.

It is part of the problem with having an aerodynamic item (ie a helicopter) underneath another helicopter - it wants to fly and is badly affected by the swirl of the downwash. Add in some crosswind and it can get quite sporty.

However, using more lines attached to the 'load' would have helped the ground team keep it all in order.

I watched a Lynx, underslung from a Chinook start to swing and then suddenly fly back and up with the tail boom of the Lynx coming very close to the rear rotor of the Chinook. South Armagh circa 1985.