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-   -   EC 225 latest ......so quiet (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/583664-ec-225-latest-so-quiet.html)

Hot_LZ 21st Sep 2016 06:36

Il take a stab and say that's probably Bristow...

212man 21st Sep 2016 07:39


The worrying part for industry is that HUMS did not detect damage and deterioration in the epicyclic such that it resulted in a catastrophic failure
Or even the good old fashioned 'making metal'.

SASless 21st Sep 2016 19:06

In the second failure....was there metal made to be detected?

Noiseboy 22nd Sep 2016 08:46

There was a document at some point, in which Airbus removed from service any gearbox that had suffered an unusual event, this included impact damage, but also lightning strike, which the gearbox fitted to DL had previously suffered while fitted to another red aircraft.

riff_raff 24th Sep 2016 05:24

Noiseboy-

That point about lightning strike damage to a main rotor gearbox is interesting. There are a couple way lightning strikes can damage main or tail rotor gearboxes.

Rotor blade lightning strike damage can produce sufficient dynamic imbalance force to damage mast bearings or even load bearing housing structures. I believe this occurred with an AS332 TR gearbox a few years back.

If the electrical bonding devices of a helicopter rotor system are poorly maintained and not performing properly, the next best electrically conductive path between the rotor and airframe are often the contacts between the rollers and races of the gearbox bearings. This can produce arcing at the very small roller/race contact areas, and pitting of the race surfaces.

Lightning strikes to turbine engine compressor blades occasionally cause damage to the shaft bearings. Here is an interesting report of one such incident.

Fareastdriver 27th Sep 2016 16:28

A lot of Airbus Helicopter's future is tied up with the 225 program. They will find a cure for the gearbox problem and they will continue with strong military sales.
In a few years, especially if the the oil picks up and distant oilfields become viable, then a long range transport system will become necessary. Those that work in this environment will step into the back of a 225 with no qualms whatsoever.

Lonewolf_50 27th Sep 2016 21:05


Originally Posted by Fareastdriver (Post 9522579)
Those that work in this environment will step into the back of a 225 with no qualms whatsoever.

I would be interested to see the opinions of the rig workers on that prediction. A bad rep can be tough to overcome.

Sky Sports 28th Sep 2016 08:01


I would be interested to see the opinions of the rig workers on that prediction
Their opinions will count for little. Their taxi will turn up and they can either get on it or not!

Concentric 28th Sep 2016 09:42


Originally Posted by Sky Sports (Post 9523287)
Their opinions will count for little. Their taxi will turn up and they can either get on it or not!

No doubt some will. Remember though you are talking about 2 different cultures, the UK one and the Norwegian one.

Even in the UK the workers opinions will have an effect. It will not be visible in suited up passengers refusing to board the aircraft when it turns up outside the departure lounge (although personally I have been very close to that scenario, ironically with a Chinook at Sola in the 1980ís). They will usually have made their decision long before that, having considered work prospects, income, family,and many other personal considerations.

The oil company may fill the seats on the aircraft but the sum total of experience on the rig or platform will decline. That erodes confidence in safety levels offshore that leads others to then leave too. Experienced workers may already be disillusioned at having to work longer rotas, often for the same pay or less. Reactively, oil companies may then improve pay and conditions to try to arrest the decline (we have seen this before) and will wind up spending more (closing the stable door too late) just to keep one type of helicopter flying than they would have paid for an alternative type with slightly reduced but often adequate load/range.

SASless 28th Sep 2016 12:46


In a few years, especially if the the oil picks up and distant oilfields become viable, then a long range transport system will become necessary.
By that time perhaps it will not be a Helicopter that is put into use for that long distance transport.

md 600 driver 28th Sep 2016 16:17

it doesn't look good for the super puma,
even the swiss military have grounded there super puma after another puma crash of one of theirs

albatross 28th Sep 2016 17:40

Initial reports on the Swiss accident speculate that it hit powerlines.

birmingham 29th Sep 2016 08:05


Originally Posted by Fareastdriver (Post 9522579)
A lot of Airbus Helicopter's future is tied up with the 225 program. They will find a cure for the gearbox problem and they will continue with strong military sales.
In a few years, especially if the the oil picks up and distant oilfields become viable, then a long range transport system will become necessary. Those that work in this environment will step into the back of a 225 with no qualms whatsoever.

Your comments on the military sales are spot on. The military have not moved on and there is time to restore confidence. In oil and gas, long short and medium range it's dead Jim. They have moved on and aren't coming back - no need to take my word for it ask the pax and the customers. Operators don't really come into it I'm afraid as however willing they may to resume operations be it is the client who ultimately decides.

etudiant 30th Sep 2016 11:42


Originally Posted by birmingham (Post 9524423)
Your comments on the military sales are spot on. The military have not moved on and there is time to restore confidence. In oil and gas, long short and medium range it's dead Jim. They have moved on and aren't coming back - no need to take my word for it ask the pax and the customers. Operators don't really come into it I'm afraid as however willing they may to resume operations be it is the client who ultimately decides.

The military may not have moved on, but they are not oblivious.
South Korea is making AH pay for deficiencies in the 225 derived Surion, notably replacing the gear boxes:
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...box-gr-429923/

Cyclic Hotline 4th Oct 2016 20:00

And more bad news for them.

Poland says ended talks with Airbus on helicopter deal | Reuters

jimf671 5th Oct 2016 06:32

Not good for Airbus but I imagine that is just a matter of taking a nationalist position to get a AW149 order for Świdnik rather than part of the 225 story that we know so well?

Scuffers 6th Oct 2016 09:58


Originally Posted by Cyclic Hotline (Post 9530126)

Is it correct to assume the EC725 Caracal uses the same gearbox as the EC225?

gnow 6th Oct 2016 12:14

Someone told me the 225 may be flying again pretty soon! Anyone else heard this rumour too?

Mee3 6th Oct 2016 13:12

AD will be in a day or two. If you are from UK or Norway, you can forget about it.

But you may wait longer due to epicyclic time max

helicrazi 6th Oct 2016 19:24

Any one care to decipher the above statement for me?


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