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-   -   Lilium vertical take off "jet" (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/578979-lilium-vertical-take-off-jet.html)

Wageslave 19th May 2016 13:13

Initially funded by the European Union and supported by the European Space Agency and its Business Incubation Centre Bavaria
ie a glitzy prestige project funded by a irresponsible and financially corrupt body notorious for handing vast sums of cash as "subsidies" to anyone with a slick line of talk and maybe a bit of inside influence.
The "visionary" (quaaludes???) designers (aka ambitious permanent students) will live high on the hog for a few years just drawing silly pictures and issuing press statements before it all goes tits-up and they start again with another half decade of taxpayer-funded smoke, mirrors and champagne.
Not a bad lifestyle, all in all, even if it is ultimately one sponged off the taxpayer (ie us) with nowt to show for it.

konradb 19th May 2016 18:08

this looks like

LightningStrike X-Plane ? Aurora

it is going to use the AE1107 turboshaft as used in the v-22 to drive 3 x 1 megawatt generators
will weigh 12000lb, 3000lb of fuel and 1500lb of payload

mickjoebill 18th Jun 2016 04:42

NASA just disclosed design of their X57 experimental electric plane.
They too are exploring many small props rather than a couple of large fans.
The small props on leading edge are used for takeoff and landing, larger motors on wing tips used in cruise.
NASA's X-57 Hybrid Electric Research Plane | NASA

This one doesn't seem to have VTOL capability.
Yes, image is an artists impression.

Ascend Charlie 18th Jun 2016 05:43

One heck of a yaw moment when one engine stops......asymmetric flight would improve your leg muscles somewhat.

PDR1 18th Jun 2016 07:21

Or you could just fire up a number of the T/O motors on that wing to bring it back into balance...


PDR1 18th Jun 2016 07:28

Originally Posted by PDR1 (Post 9377874)
Concepts like this have been done before. There was a Cessna 150(?) which was fitted with a tiny wing all within the propwash and on its sole flight appeared to fly very well - right up to the point where the engine stopped, revealing the essential weakness of the concept. When I get home I'll loook out the references for that one.

I'd forgotten about this - apols!. I've just looked it up and my memory was faulty. The aeroplane I was thinking of was the 1953 Larsen Speed Bird, which was based on a Taylorcraft BC-12:



riff_raff 19th Jun 2016 02:40

Don't know if I believe the claims made by NASA for the benefits of this concept.

"NASA’s aeronautical innovators hope to validate the idea that distributing electric power across a number of motors integrated with an aircraft in this way will result in a five-time reduction in the energy required for a private plane to cruise at 175 mph."

They claim the thinner wing will reduce drag in cruise flight. But it does not seem to come close to offsetting the added drag/weight of the 12 electric propellers that are not used in cruise flight.

mickjoebill 6th Dec 2016 06:29

The Venture Capitalist company "Atomico" are backing Lilium Aviation to the tune of €10M

Atomico - Great companies can come from anywhere

New pictures of the prototype/mockup
Big announcement




mickjoebill 20th Apr 2017 20:34

Lilium test flight
It flys.(unmanned)


For a measure of the potential significance of this test flight, read the previous posts from the many whom doubted it was possible.


CTR 20th Apr 2017 21:41

Nice video editing
[QUOTE=mickjoebill;9747213]It flys.(unmanned)



Please rewatch the video and pay close attention to the editing cut from the full scale non flying mockup to a much smaller flying model.

Also notice that the landing gear is different and no one is photographed next to the flying mode to give a reference to scale.

PDR1 20th Apr 2017 21:42

Erm...that looked like an RC model at about 1/4-1/3 scale (compare its size to the taxiway it landed on, and look at the wobble when it first lifted off).

If so I'm not sure what it proved.


fatmanmedia 21st Apr 2017 02:19

I was laughing so loud I nearly peed myself watching it, it was clearly a RC scale model, the video was a nicely edited bt of junk.

I'll take more interest when they fly with a person in the cockpit.

mickjoebill 21st Apr 2017 15:49

Hey CTR, PDR1 and Fatmanmedia, in response to your claims about the video, Lilium Aviation posted the following;

As a founder, I can guarantee on behalf of our amazing investors and all you people out there, we did NOT use CGI or a size scaled model. This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept.

Their published timeline is for the first manned flight in 2019.


Nige321 21st Apr 2017 16:03

I've just watched it on a very big screen. I'd say it's full size, there's just too much detail for it not to be... Some armchair experts need to go to Specsavers...

CTR 21st Apr 2017 16:13

Please provide weight data
I am willing to be convinced with two pieces of data.

Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.

Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.

mickjoebill 21st Apr 2017 16:34

Originally Posted by CTR (Post 9748077)
I am willing to be convinced with two pieces of data.

Flying model size compared to non flying prototype shown earlier in the video.

Most importantly, the flying models actual weight.

A multicamera recording, along with a personal guarantee from Paddy, a co-founder, that it is their full size two seater in the video has already answered your first data request..but you still don't believe them, because...?


CTR 21st Apr 2017 17:27

Because I have done the math...

I don't believe because I am an engineer and have done the math. Battery and motor technology is not viable yet. And will likely not be for 10 to 20 years at best.

Regarding scale, the founder stated "This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept". He did not state it it was the same generous size as the mockup shown earlier in the video. I believe it is about 3/4 scale at best.

Regarding weight, I have seen mockups of full scale cars flying. Using one or two pies of composite cloth you could make a good scale size Lilium model that weighed under a 60 lbs fly. But this is far less difficult than what is required to make a real two passenger weight aircraft fly.

So give me real dimensions and weight of what is flying in the video. Then I can check my math.

PDR1 21st Apr 2017 17:38

So all this happened at an airfield in Germany?

If it is a full-size, remotely piloted version where are the certification papers and NOTAMs required for legally flying an untethered SUAV of that size? Germany has rules about that sort of thing.

Personally I'm still sceptical and will remain so until the videos stop using the typical tricks used to obfuscate the size - showing it with nothing at all in the frame to scale it being one of the main ones.

I also don't believe that fans which are lifting what must be over 1,000kg of airframe could be anything like that quiet.


mickjoebill 22nd Apr 2017 03:42

"This is the original size of our previous two-seated concept".
The point he is making is the production model will be a four seater.
Do you agree that what was flown was a full size two seater craft, ie of a size that could fit two adults?


Vertical Freedom 22nd Apr 2017 05:23

Auto....Auto......wanna see an AUTO :D :mad: :D

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