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-   -   Helijet S-76C Loss of Control November 2015 (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/574021-helijet-s-76c-loss-control-november-2015-a.html)

Turkeyslapper 8th Feb 2016 02:18

"NVGs are an option.... should the government decide to pay for them, as its a provincial contract"


No NVGs but under the provincial contract approaches to flame rings at blacked out airports are ok??? I must be missing something but that sounds ludicrous??

gulliBell 9th Feb 2016 01:59

If ground support was in attendance why can't they just do a runway inspection, lay the flares down the edge of the runway, and use the aircraft controllable search light to supplement the ground illumination? Much safer than getting succoured into a black hole approach. Unless the local operating rules dictate otherwise?

The power train replacement must have cost at least $1 million USD. Much cheaper me thinks just to lay the flares down the edge of the runway and execute a normal runway landing. To me it's just crazy landing into a flare circle when you have a 5000' runway that might otherwise be available.

Hot and Hi 23rd Dec 2017 11:12

TSB Canada Investigation Report
 
Here is the full investigation report Aviation Investigation Report A15P0217 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

The first 40 pages is good reading, then it becomes a bit repetitive: Unfortunately, the final analysis chapter is a mere repetition of the facts established upfront. No real judgement passed.

How could the incident happen? Two ATP's, two engines, autopilot, IFR ratings, thousands of hours each. The biggest single problem the report highlights is the low crew gradient: Professional curtesy prevents scrutiny. Or rather, each pilot may have thought the other pilot should well be able to do the job on his own. Right they were. What one would expect a PPL holder to get right: speed, sink rate, attitude.

But if it can happen do the best, if might happen to any of us. As such it serves as a good learning.

gulliBell 23rd Dec 2017 11:38


Originally Posted by Hot and Hi (Post 9999298)

...How could the incident happen? Two ATP's, two engines, autopilot, IFR ratings, thousands of hours each..

Don't be surprised, I've seen it happen many many times in the simulator. One pilot sits on his hands and says nothing as the other pilot flies both of them into the ground. ATP, CPL, high experience, low experience, makes no difference, the behavior and outcome is the same.

I'm a bit rusty on S76C+ as I haven't flown one in about 20 years, but some of my reading of the report thus far doesn't gel with my vague memory...about blowaway power (para 1.6.3.1)...I thought the most the DECU would give you under blowaway logic is 115% TQ...the report says if NR drops below 90% the DECU will give you 140% TQ, really?? And (para 1.6.4.1) "..The system is designed to limit fuel flow when either the all-engines-operating torque limit or the temperature limit is reached..." Doesn't the DECU only look at T5 for engine starting?...the DECU limits fuel flow to maintain T5 limit during blowaway logic event, really? Maybe I'm setting myself up to look stupid here, and I don't have any manuals at hand to look up the answers for myself, so if any S76 gurus out there could enlighten me on these aspects, thanks.

gulliBell 23rd Dec 2017 14:22


Originally Posted by albatross (Post 9999402)
Decu does not control engine starts ..actually I know of no helicopter that does that.

Of course the DECU controls engine starts...it is the box that sends the control signals to the stepper motor that is attached to the AFCU that regulates engine fuel flow during start, operation, and shutdown.

Flapwing 23rd Dec 2017 19:30

Full 72 page report
 
1 Attachment(s)
the full 72 page report

albatross 24th Dec 2017 16:27

Sorry about my post..my error...I was refering to still monitoring to ensure no overtemp..just very badly worded...I will go stand in the corner with my dunce cap firmly in place.
I think I was having a 76A, A+ or ++ moment.

casper64 24th Dec 2017 19:07


Originally Posted by RyRy (Post 9262619)
NVGs are an option.... should the government decide to pay for them, as its a provincial contract.

Sad that it's just an "option"... should be mandatory if you ask me.... It would have prevented everything!

gulliBell 25th Dec 2017 10:44

Some might say, monitoring the sink rate and other performance parameters with the Mk1 eye ball and call any deviations during the approach would also have prevented everything. For sure NVG would have given them better visual clues that they were flying backwards/sideways at the bottom of the approach.

Longdog 25th Dec 2017 15:49

Helijet & B.C. Ambulance Service to install Night Vison Imaging Technology on Air Ambulance Aelicopters - Helijet.com
It took a while, and almost the loss of life, but the government has seen the light.

the coyote 26th Dec 2017 01:34

If you fly a black hole approach without absolute attention to the numbers then you are simply asking for trouble. In my view it is 10% eyeball and 90% instrument. Plot a distance to run/altitude scale and set up a constant GS/ROD to match and it should fall into place with minor corrections. Those that fly it all eyeball will get disorientated.

Sir Korsky 26th Dec 2017 01:47

the Universal FMS has the VNAV function. You can't couple, but you set the ROD and you'll get SA guidance to any fix your choice. We'd use it a lot going into black holes.

gulliBell 26th Dec 2017 02:15

Don't they have a nightsun to light up the landing area like a Christmas tree? If not, the pilot controllable searchlight on a S76 provides reasonable ground illumination below about 300'. Certainly enough light to provide visual reference at the bottom of an approach. When you are close to the ground the pilot has to be looking outside...

Longdog 26th Dec 2017 15:48

Helijet receives heaviest aviation fines from Transport Canada in B.C. | Vancouver Sun
Just published.


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