Can I hour build with a commercial company but not get paid with a PPL H
 

Hey People,

Im very new to this so please keep with me... ANY help will greatly received!

Im starting my PPL H in a couple of months with the progression to CPL H and flight instructor hopefully.

Im going to have to try and fund it myself so im looking to save where I can :uhoh:

My plan is to do my PPL H in an R22, or may be one of the new Gumbali, then do a type conversion for the AW 109 with the hope to do some hour building with some company's in the number 2 seat for no money or happy to pay some.

What im not sure about is if this is legal / possible, I know you cant earn money if you don't have a CPL H but can you still fly commercially to build hours??.

Obviously I appreciate that there are going to be very few company's willing to entertain the idea, but im just looking for the experience for the future.

Also recommendations for good training schools please...

What do you all think??

Cheers....

Can I hour build with a commercial company but not get paid with a PPL H
 

Avoid pay to fly. Don't work for nothing. That goes for all aviation.

Hi,

If I were you, I'd hide behind something as there likely to be a sh*t storm heading your way - unless the PPruners take some pity on you!! I'll try to soften the blow for you!

Firstly, good luck with the PPL (H) it's challenging and rewarding and an amazing achievement. You'll be in a very small worldwide club!

Now for the reality check. You're proposing to jump straight from a PPL(H) achieved in an R22 and then move straight into a 109? Whilst theoretically (and probably practically) possible in reality it's probably highly unlikely. It's a bit like taking a rowing boat out on a local lake and expecting your capable of Commanding a cruise liner the following week!

The R22 is a VFR, single engined piston engined training machine and the 109 is a SPIFR, twin engined, turbine machine with SAS, autopilot, FADEC and capable of carrying 7 POB. Realistically you're gonna need 150 hours post PPL before you should be thinking about a (single engine) turbine, and then probably a further 500 turbine hours before you're even ready to consider a twin.

As far as your CPL (H) is concerned I think you need 150 hrs P1 before you're eligible to begin a course. You're then required to undertake a further 40 hrs training before taking a test. Once you have this you'll need a further 40 hrs training for your FI rating.

As far as sitting in the P2 seat is concerned you've probably more chance of winning the lottery two weeks running. Best of luck though!

Joel :ugh:

Strictly speaking, as far as hour building goes, there is no P2 seat in an AW109 because it's a single pilot machine. There's nothing to stop you sitting there (as a passenger) but you cannot claim any hours towards a licence.

As for getting "let loose" as captain in one after "graduating" in the R22....you wouldn't get any operator to agree. It's a little like expecting drive a Ferarri for a living shortly after passing your driving test in a Nissan Micra.

Quite good odds then !


Luckiest couple on earth wins the lottery THREE times in one month | Daily Mail Online


How about the chance of winning the same lottery draw twice?

Man Doubles His Luck to Win Same Lottery Twice - ABC News

:ok:

A commercial flight is not defined by the salary of the pilot but probably rather by the commercial intention of the operator.
Common sense suggests that a commercially operated aircraft requires a commercial pilot.

From the EASA hp:
from caa.co.uk:

Silsoe,

Any idea where that couple bought their tickets ???? :}

It's nice that the replies to the OP have been gentle.

What the OP needs to know is that there are lots of professional pilots out there finding it tough to get work and make a living, so it is upsetting when newbies offer to work for free and steal their living from under them.

The answer to your question is yes but .........
In my company in Devon we run a rolling rota with all the PPL's we have trained that allow them to fly the machines at half price if they need to be positioned to jobs, maintenance etc etc.
Last year one of my PPL's got about 30 hours on a turbine in return for help as ground crew in load lifting / pleasure flying operations !
Others got half price flying on the pistons taking them to maintenance etc etc

Kryton John

Sorry I think Ive miss understood me being a newbie,

I was under the impression that until you have enough hours (155 I Think) to take and complete the CPL H you cant get paid, But please let me know there is anyone out there paying people to hour build??:confused:

Not trying to upset anyone,

Cheers

Hey Joel,

Thanks for the info, Probably going to be best to hour build in the r22 as a hell of alot cheaper, Just thought it might be a way forward in the AW 109 as every charter company seems to have at least one!!

I appreciate its a whole different kettle of fish, and as some one else has said there is no p2 seat on the 109 so cant build hours from there, and no one in the right mind will let some one with 50 hours fly one... one day though... watch this space!

Cheers though!!:ok:

Hi Hughes500,

Now thats the sort of thing i was talking about... :ok:

Does your company run any PPL H / CPL H Training, if so can you pin me an email with a link.

Cheers

That's big of you....NOT. As bad as guys doing commercial work for free, or in some airlines case, paying to sit in the copilot seat.

I don't think there is any conflict here with a commercial pilot trying to make a living.

When I had my PPL but no FI/CPL, the organisation I did the hourbuulding with gave me approx 30 hours free flights on the basis that I paid for 1 sector and they paid for the return sector (it was normally swopping aircraft between bases), I was not capable of earning money and it helped the organisation out as they had less money lost on dead sectors.

There was no dodgy commercial flights here. What we don't want is actual commercial flights where the pilot is flying for free or even worse paying to fly, when the pax are paying as well.

what Hughes500 suggests is "win,win" IMO

Megan

Tell you what mate I won't bother helping someone up the ladder. The machine goes with a commercial pilot who is paid but he doesn't log the hours the ppl guy does I am not interested in logging hours as it doesn't effect me any more
As CF says it is a win win, in fact the ppl gets a huge amount of experience at a fraction of normal cost.
Now tell me what would you prefer to do hire a S300 to hour build or fly a Hughes 500 / 341 at the same cost ?

There are always two sides to the story and 15 years ago I turned down the chance to do some 1/2 price hour building in a 206 which needed to go somewhere prior to tasking, but now I would offer that to an hour builder with a discount if the opportunity arose, my viewpoint has changed and I would now take the opportunity to fly turbines for less money, the location would not matter to me, if I needed to get that foot on the ladder.

Hughes500 is a good bloke (yes I know him) and with good intent, it really is win / win, look at it from the other side, if he has to pay for every dead leg in full his costs go up in an already ridiculously expensive business to be in. No one is forcing anyone to hour build cheaply in a turbine, and the more expensive option is available if customers really want to pay top dollar to fly from A to A , perhaps even paying for the same safety pilot as they dont meet insurance requirements to fly alone. I've not spoken to H500 about this so this is just me pointing out that not everyone's intent is bad, his certainly will not be.

In my experience the likelihood of anyone paying anyone to hour build is almost zero at the start of a career in the civilian world, you might occasionally get a free positioning leg somewhere if you are lucky.

Gary

I understand the frustration of people trying to find paid work, but commercial operators are there to make money. The 50/50 scheme seems like a fair compromise.
I am employed by one of the biggest companies in the UK, when I order pens, pencils and teabags, I always look for the best quality available sat the best bargain price.
Always look for efficiencies, 50/50 is just that

Gary

The first time you have called me a good bloke, do i owe you money or a beer ?????

Heli 10

no problem, best of luck.
On a positive note I know of two people who went from PPL (H), then type rated on a turbine (my jet ranger in fact) and then built up his hours in order to do his CPL (H) which he did (again, in my jet ranger). He then stopped , by choice.

The second did the same thing (but not in my machine) and has now been working full time as a commercial pilot flying the Eurocopter EC120. It's do-able but it's a journey of twists, turns and ups/downs and expensive.

Best of luck

Joel :ok:

I found a way to do a similar thing here in New Zealand. Once I had my PPL and an R44 rating, I decided to continue through to CPL with a 141 school that also had a charter division. I acted as ground crew on the weekends and in return was rewarded with ferry flying, to and from remote bases. For about 4-5 hrs of being ground crew I would normally log a 0.8 or 0.9 of ferry flying. No money changed hands. As with Hughes500's offer everyone saw it as a win win. The machine had to get from A-B, the commercial pilot got paid regardless, I built valuable experience both on the ground and in the air, and I helped them get the job done. I built about 25 hrs of my 150hr CPL that way, learnt a lot and enjoyed myself.

I got to know their systems to the point that when I got my CPL, I was put on the books straight away as a (very junior) commercial pilot. It is not a common scenario, and obviously not something you can count on but there are opportunities around. Your best bet is to choose carefully who you are going to train with as thats normally where your first opportunities spring from, and be a good bastard.