Multi Pilot Helicopter types...
 

As the EASA ATPL(H) requires you to hold a Multi Pilot type rating, does anyone know if there is a list of these types and what is accepted as MP type by the UK CAA for ATPL issue?

The reason I ask is I was reading a document ref the AW 139, which I thought was indeed a MP type. The document however states it is a Single Pilot type ...

I know there are intricacies about where and what conditions its flown in, but I'm just trying to find a definitive list of what types the UK CAA will accept to turn my EASA CPL/IR(H) into an ATPL.

(All other pre requisites, hours, MCC, exams etc are complete)

Thanks.
FCL

A 206 can be a multi pilot helicopter if specified so in the approved OPS manual.
Depends on the individual operator.

Many operators operate types that can be flown Single Pilot as Multi Crew (AW139, S76, EC155, AS365 etc).

I know of many people who have successfully argued this point to the CAA on the basis of being able to substantiate that the aircraft in question was operated Multi Pilot when they flew the hours on it. Such supporting evidence would include an Ops Manual which specified multi pilot procedures, a letter from the Chief Pilot confirming that hours were flown multi pilot, existence of a structure that had obvious co-pilots logging P2 hours (rather than everyone being a captain).

Armed with most or all of the above (and all the other requirements) you should be able to argue your case with CAA. Like i said, i know many who have. Be prepared to prove it though, and don't expect to swing it just because you've got a few hours on a single pilot type with another pilot sitting beside you - they will want to see that it is genuine MCC stuff. Expect your submissions to be scrutinised!

Best of luck
OH

So does that mean one has to have Two Pilot Type experience to get a an ATPL to fly Single Pilot IFR in the exact same aircraft? (Think S-76 for example). Sounds a bit daft that!

Bob

Under EASA (and JAA before it) - you don't get an ATPL to fly a single pilot anything!

ATPL is Multi crew only. Everything you need to do that is single pilot you can do on a CPL (according to EASA).

I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is :rolleyes:

OH

There is no such "list"-as it will be in the (company) Operations Manual OR the appropriate flight manual…

If you want to "just do it"-get yourself some hours in the simulator-i can tell you for sure that the Bell 212/412-simulator in Stockholm is recognized as SPH AND MPH by the UK CAA…

I recall this issue before, I think it isn't the company ops manual but as defined in the OEM RFM.

Cap 804, Flight Crew Licensing: Mandatory Requirements, Policy and Guidance says:

So my apologies….

The UK Civil Aviation Authorities Information Notice (IN-2013/107) adds:

And it continues:

And that´s VFR only….IFR is another story on top of that..

Amazing what happens when you have multiple populations of Jobsworths sat around with nothing to do but justify their existence on the Public Dole. One must keep up appearances you know!

This is my confuuuuuzed face innit ...
 

Thanks for all the replies fellas/ladies.

On the change over of my JAR CPL(H) IR to EASA, I brought up this point. But even with an MCC course and 1300 hours of UK CAA certified Multi Crew time from the military, 5000 hrs+, they said no to an ATPL (H) because I did not have a "Multi Pilot type" on my licence.

There used to be a list in the old LASORS of these types, but now Cap 804 just refers you back n forth between references.

The trouble is, as pointed out above, that all the SP work can be done on a CPL(H) IR..... But if you wish to move onto MC operations, the bigger MC operators require an ATPL ...which you cant get unless you have a MC Type on your licence ....which you cant get unless you work for a bigger operator (or you happen to have £40k in your sock drawer).

I am applying for MC jobs that require MINIMUM ATPL(H) and fear that my CV is being 'file 13'd' because it says CPL(H) IR....

It appears to be an unfair vicious circle, especially when I know guys with only single engine, single pilot time, but who were licensed through the old CAA system and never having done an MCC course ...now hold EASA ATPL(H) !!!

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Anyone lend me £40k ?:sad:

FCL

Flare...

It does seem unjust, as i too am sitting on "just" a CPLH I/R looking at people with less total time and much less Multi crew experience holding ATPL/H just because they got through a matter of months before me.

I don't suppose any system will ever keep everyone happy.

It's been my experience that UK offshore operators will recruit you as a Co-pilot on the CPLH I/R thus getting you the T/R and then upgrade to Commander thereafter when you've got the ATPL and ticked all the boxes. (Such an offer was recently made to me).

Good luck
OH

And they are right (according to cap 804).

Before you can take your check ride, you HAVE to have a MPH rating on your license…..
The check ride itself can be combined with the renewal of this type, or with an additional check ride…

Is there any possibility you can re-convert your military license again?

Have you been in contact with the CAA, explaining your situation and asked them for a one-time-approval to do the ATPL check ride combined with the FIRST MPH-rating?

Are you sure they hold an EASA ATPL(H) :confused::confused:

Check Ride??
 

Huey Racer, I'm now even more confused ... ATPL check ride? I cant find anything in CAP 804 about a check ride. The check ride for ATP, isn't that an American system?

The CAP says that you must have the CPL, relevant hours, the exams, the IR, the MCC course and a MP type on your licence.

I can find no reference to another check ride.. After 17 years of flying, 5000 hours of turbine time, 3000 hours of Multi eng turbine, 1300 MCC hours, 1500 hours night, 300 NVG, over 300 instrument approaches and an IR since 1997, an Engine failure in the hover, undercarriage jammed, a fenestron break up on final approach and having flown on all but 2 of the continents of this planet .... what Check ride is required?? :confused:

As it reads, once a MP type is on the licence this is then the final requirement for the issue of an ATPL. My point is that the MP operators are requiring ATPL ... which we cannot achieve without a MP type...which we cant get because the MP operators want an ATPL ...which we cant ..........and around we go.

I know of at least 3 people that have transferred their old UK CAA ATPL, having never done an MCC course and having no Multi Crew time ...who are now holders of an EASA ATPL(H). Personally I think hey have pulled a 'blinder' at the Belgrano desk and baffled the clerk into issuing it :ok:

The military licence cannot be re-done.

Thanks everyone.

FCL

Read Cap804, Section 4, Part F, Subpart 2, page 1 and following:


You did not think they would issue you a license (especially a "higher" one) without a check ride (and without charging you for that)?

I would recommend you go and get approval from your CAA to carry out the ATPL-checkride together with the check ride on your FIRST MPH-Type…

Then go and find a company where you can do your first MPH rating (preferably in the sim, as it will be much cheaper)…
This way you will get your ATPL….
I cannot see any other way..
Regarding your colleagues-they have been lucky…but two wrongs does not make one right….i am sorry...

Thanks for your informed reply.

I'm off to f*&King drown myself.

FCL

By the way:


You don´t need an IR for the ATPL(H). You just need the 30 hours of IR EXPERIENCE…but not an IR rating...
There is an ATPL(H)VFR; and the ATPL(H).
For all of those who do not hold an IR, EASA thought it to be a good idea to come up with this "bull****" of establishing a VFR-ATPL…..so you can work as Captain on a MPH in VFR-only operations…
Don´t know where these are going to happen….but it´s possible…

GLUG ......

Maybe they thought it might be applicable and relevant to those who want to operate Sky Cranes on summer fire fighting campaigns in southern Europe, for instance. ;)

For a first MPH type rating the LST can also act as the ATPL(H) LST and the extension of an SP IR(H) to MP IR(H). In my last role I clarified this with the CAA when we put an ex-military (Sea King) pilot with a CPL/IR (H) and an AW139 SP type rating through an S-92 TR course. He came out with an ATPL/IR(H) following one LST (in the sim).

Thanks 212Man, that at least gives some hope that if a MP operator takes me on in the future, the Type Rating, IRT and LST will cover the ATPL check ride. I was imagining having to go to to a flying school and taking a flight test with a 300 hour FI(H) in an R22!!! :ugh::)
Cheers.

FCL.