Skin the cat - why?
 

So we are now talking about different methods of taking off from a private/confined site in sh**e weather breaking all the rules in the book. Yes you can engage hover (MUH 30ft?) then climb on the radalt to a good height say 500ft, then trans up to take you to 80kts and you are away, BUT this is not a war zone so do we really need to do it. No of course not. Just remember the old adage 'there are old pilots and bold pilots ......... There is a lot of truth in that.
I agree that we should not be talking about raising the limits either. Stick to the rules and you will be fine. If the limits get raised then you may as well fly by fixed wing.

No, I was was giving a practical example to a question.....in addition, not that I am suggesting that it is wise to takeoff into fog from a private helipad and I am not sure what the rules are in the UK however, they are not the same all over the world either (can you even use goggles for scene landings there yet :8).

Either way, a tragedy and RIP.

Cheers

What rules do you suppose were broken in this case, bearing in mind this was not an AOC flight, and what evidence have you of that?

Shy,

the rules in your own book. We all have limitations that when broken can result in a learning process which in turn may expand those limits or in some cases may result in something far worse and unrecoverable. Note, I have not said this is what may have happened in this case.

I feel very sorry for the two pilots and the other passenger. The owner reaped what he sowed with his attitude to his flying staff.

What book is that?

With you on that FSX.

There was no HOV mode or TU on this heli - I think that's only enabled on the SAR ac even though the buttons are installed. GA would only work above 60kts, but would give you a wings level climb at 1000' per min and accel to 80kts off top of head.

Ref rules Shytorque, by the sound of the metars and anecdotal eye witness reports then the VFR vis limits for a start AOC or none.

Whatever the cause, the AW139 is equipped with a FDR and a CVR and it's quite possible the pilots' own records are retrievable by the authorties. Let's give time and investigative teams a chance.
Like someone before posted, there are many ways to skin a cat, but only one way to do it BY THE BOOK.

Zero/Zero Takeoffs are not that difficult.....perhaps Illegal....but as a practical exercise is quite a normal training task.....once done in single engined, non-Stabilzed helicopters by Student Pilots.

Now we get into convoluted esoteric arguments about capabilities of Avionics Systems.

Until the AAIB releases, at least a basic summary of what happened, anything being discussed so far is pure speculation.

Judging by the engine cowlings, this would likely to have been a Phase 7 aircraft. So, FWIW, that figure would be 41kts. And, IIRC, HOV and TU modes are included as 'standard' in Phase 7.

That's not to say, however, that you would necessarily want to be using any of those modes in this scenario.

Zero/Zero Autorotations in a Sim.......and how does that work in real life?

You are right, zero zero takeoffs are not that difficult once practiced and current (especially in such a capable aircraft) but if you make a habit of doing such maneouveres you stand a good chance of getting caught out one day.

The question is WHY? Why would you do such a take off in poor conditions. We all know the answers as to why and listening to pricks like the bloke on the Jeremy Vine show it's surprising these accidents are not more common.

Shy. Would you complete a take off at night in thick fog from a private site without being shot at?

Compared to the gazelle in which we used to practise zero/zero take-offs (under the hood) the UH1 IS stabilised! Not that I'd like to try it at night from a confined area surrounded by trees that can't be seen.

Perhaps if the Farmer's Daughter's Father arrived home early....and he had a Shotgun handy and one did too thorough a Run Up Checklist!:ok:

I could see how fog might be an advantage then.

What is it about the engine cowlings that indicates Phase 7 software?

Does anyone have the serial number of this aircraft?

No I wouldn't. But what do you know about the exact prevailing visibility conditions at this private site?

And what do we know about the requirements for visibility for a private flight operating from a private HLS?

Any differences for a flight which could be planned to climb and use IFR en route?

And while we're on the subject of "breaking all the rules in the book", I ask again what book are we talking about and what differences are there in weather requirements for AOC/PT and privately operated, non AOC flights?

High Spirits, would you be happy about the details of your private home being listed in a public aviation document?

By the same principle, why not ban all car journeys from unlisted private addresses? After all, there are far more car accidents.

Why not go the whole hog, ban all helicopter flights from other than airfields? Then use a fixed wing followed by a long drive to get to your destination. That would do the industry loads of good... :ugh:

31421
GINFO
:ok:

Shy,

I was simply asking you a question which you have assumed was directed at this incident.

I am guessing that your thoughts as to the cause of the accident are not weather related?