Twin Pilot NPAS Ops?
 

Could indeed be the way forward. Specifcally as in Scotland with force merger, crews can anticipate greatly increased operating ranges. Indeed this flight, I hear, spent part of its duration on a job in the old Lothian and Borders police patch, which it would not previously have been expected to do. Was this planned on the ground? Or a requirement added during the flight?

Is the expectation, in the new 'Police Scotland' era, of airborne asset ability to respond to no-notice in flight re-tasking to low level, night, urban, single pilot ops over unfamiliar territory enough to prompt a rethink?

No doubt some will say such an appeal would be a thinly veiled 'more jobs for more pilots' campaign. I'm not so sure.

This investigation may, or may not, feed into the debate.....

"retard throttles"
 

Is there a suggestion above that one would retard throttles if a TR failure were to occur under these circumstances?

BBC Radio5..... No evidence of engine/gear failure, AAIB

Is this type susceptible to intake icing?

OAP

From the BBC Website
 

Clutha helicopter crash: No mechanical fault found

Investigators have found no evidence of engine or gearbox failure in the police helicopter which crashed into a busy pub in Glasgow killing nine people.

Preliminary findings from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB) found the main and tail rotors were not rotating at the time of impact.

The report also stated the Police Scotland helicopter had about 95 litres of fuel when it crashed on The Clutha.

The three crew and six people in the bar died in the crash on 29 November.

The report said that the helicopter took off at 20:45 with 400kg of fuel on board.

It stayed over an area of Glasgow's south side for about 30 minutes before making a short 10 minute foray over Dalkeith in Midlothian, some 38 nautical miles away.

The helicopter was granted permission to re-enter Glasgow air space at 22:18.

The report said: "No further radio transmissions from the pilot were received. Radar contact with the helicopter was lost at 22:22.

"Around this time the helicopter was seen and heard by a witness who described hearing a noise like a loud "misfiring car".

The report continued: "He then saw the helicopter descend rapidly. It crashed through the roof of The Clutha Bar, a single storey building on Stockwell Street in central Glasgow."

Very mysterious...
What then could cause the rotors to stop in such a short time???

skadi

Not a pilot so I'm curious, given the aircraft and conditions, what sort of flight time would 95 litres of fuel permit.

The BBC quote has missed the most important detail in the AAIB report


The drive train was complete to the Fenestron through the MGB and no evidence of major disruption to either engine


in my mind that leaves very few possibilities with 90kg of fuel still on board
and two shut down engines and a very experienced pilot


Something was found very shortly after initial investigations started either off or on scene to give the AAIB a fairly big clue where this is going

Icing
 

It wasn't that sort of night, report even says so, 5 degrees and 2 degree dew point, I was in the area, it was very mild, if he came from the East Coast, its likely to have been even warmer.

I've drawn a conclusion as to what stops both engines and slows a rotor very quickly, and given this report, it's still on the cards. But, I so so hope I am wrong!

I would take issue with the AV8 report.

The fact that there was 95 kg of fuel in the tank does not preclude fuel starvation.

It's a long way from tank to engine!

I am not in any way suggesting this as a cause.

Special Bulletin
 

True, reworded. Thanks for pointing it out.

Point of Order:

The AAIB report states approximately 95 LITRES of fuel.

That's about 75 Kgs.

BBC site is stating 95 litres NOT 95kg. So a slightly different amount.

The report says 95 litres of fuel found, not 95kg. That's about 76kg - about 13% of full capacity. But I understand the fuel system is designed to prevent both engines being starved of fuel at the same time.

Approx 25 minutes to dry tanks with that fuel. What they do not say is which of the 3 tanks held the fuel, that is important.....

Thanks

Expecting fuel to be in Kg, and somehow read it as such. Would such a fuel state cause any limitations to manoeuvring?

I note that apart from a reference to the 'silence' refered to by the eyewitness, nowhere does the report state that the engines were stopped.

TC

Re your post #545 "1 x other" is starting to look like the only explanation which adds up.

The reducing number of possible causes
 

Is wake turbulence ruled out yet or was it not a possibility from what is known/surmised? Sorry if it appears a silly question but as a recently retired fixed wing FI it is something that I might want to be considered if no obvious cause was given/found.