slj
Should never have been brought. :eek:
It's very easy to say that now, when we all know what happened.

This guy conned the Police and ended up flying a Police helicopter. I somehow don't believe however overstretched the CPS are they'd have run this one like just an ordinary case, and they would have had their own barrister advising them and prosecuting the case in the crown court.
The guy got off ALL the charges, not just the main one. :mad:

Thank you, FL, for an excellent summary of how this played out before the Recorder.

I think those participants who suggest that the ASU and its officers were stupid, or naive, or negligent, need to bear in mind that they dealt for upwards of a year with a person who is obviously skilled at presenting a convincing account of himself.

I'm minded of Frank Abagnale, a high-school graduate who pulled an analogous stunt in the 60's, representing himself as a PanAm pilot and riding jumpseats and sometimes left-and-right seats around the world on that airline's aircraft. He then graduated into check fraud and the like, which is how I know him.

Frank is "straight" now - Persil-scheined by the FBI, no less. I like Frank very well, and am always glad to attend one of his training seminars. But that man could sell iceboxes to Eskimoes, and I always check my wallet when I'm done talking with him.

Never underestimate the power of a persuasive personality. Perhaps the ASU needs one or two recent ex-beat-copppers knocking around the place - I doubt that this fellow would have got very far around someone like that.

llater,

llamas

Hoverman

I said the case put before the court should never had been brought.

This is different from saying that there should not have been a prosecution on some grounds.

One of the best pieces of advice in deciding to bring a case to court is to carry out an exercise that makes you look at how you would defend that case if you represented the otherside. You quickly see the snags in your case if any exist.

Read what FL says in his first posting. Why did he decide to leave his destruction exercise to the actual hearing? What were the risks in trying to get the charges withdrawn before the hearing?

Mr Ree

Lawyers in any system be it adversarial or inquisitorial, represent their clients and I am not sure whether you are making a genuine point or embarking upon a bit of lawyer bashing, a sport not entirely unknown on Pprune.

The system we have provides for anyone accused of an offence to be properly defended and for the prosecution to prove their guilt if they are to be convicted.

The adversarial system works upon the principle that both sides have the opportunity to be represented by advocates (as we must call them these days) of equal calibre. It doesn't always follow but it does to a large extent and it is worth remembering that barristers such as myself and FL both prosecute and defend. It is perhaps fortunate for the flying community that the CAA seem to have a policy of not instructing pilots to prosecute their cases (at least so I have heard and none of the CAA prosecutors I have been against have ever been pilots) and thus so far FL has not been lured by the Dark Side.

Joking apart, the Bar code of conduct provides, inter alia:

When defending a client on a criminal charge, a barrister must endeavour to protect his client from conviction except by a competent tribunal and upon legally admissible evidence sufficient to support a conviction for the offence for which his client is charged.

A barrister is under a duty to defend any person on whose behalf he is instructed on a criminal charge irrespective of any belief or opinion which he may have formed as to the guilt or innocence of that person.

Defending counsel is not under any duty to correct any mis-statement of fact made by the prosecution.......

The code also reminds barristers that

"the issue in a criminal trial is always whether the accused is guilty of the offence charged, never whether he is innocent;

that the burden of proof rests on the prosecution"

I pose the question, whether it be in a criminal or civil case, would you like to be represented by a lawyer who is going to tell the opposition about the gaps in your case and what they should do to make their case stronger? Having subsequently lost the case what is going to be your reaction when you come to pay his bill?

Despite this guy being what could be described as a bit of a conman, he must have been very able in the flying department, the Chief pilot otherwise would have seen though him,

Wouldn't he?:eek:

It's a basic principle of law that both sides kick off equal and do their best. It might seem nice to say - Well, he's a swine, must be guilty, but when you make an exception from the law once, you damage the whole system....soon you come to - Oh well, he's black, looked at me funny - guilty! and Oh, he's rich, must be OK-. Therefore, any breach of the law by the police or the prosecution has to be treated strictly, as they have the power to tits around with the evidence, batter the suspect etc. if they are not held to it. Democracy and the Rule of Law go together - unfortunately that means that sometimes, we have to put up with a verdict we don't like.

I wasn't intending to do some law bashing with my comments, only to remark on the differences between the two codes of aviation and law. Often we see the old debate 'could a newly qualified PPL land a 747 etc', well I suppose I was thinking what if a pilot was a lawyer for a day; would they be able to keep quiet about some facts that they knew, if released, would send their guilty (as admitted) client to jail.
Having said that, knowing some of the guys I fly with that would have to be a resounding yes!
Oh well. Really just as well I'm not a lawyer.:)

Walter Mitty unlicensed
 

In South Africa there was a similar set of events , where this "Walter Mitty" was sooo smooth that he took in several employers , actually flying reasonably well ! But , he had held only a PPL -then expired - when he flew commercially for a few months.
So beware - it's not the first - nor the last time these "Walter Mitty's" try to be employed - without a license !

Has he actually done anything that the CAA could do him for? As far as I can make out he has a PPL(H), so he's qualified to fly helicopters. He managed to get himself some flights in a twin, albeit dishonestly, but presumably with an instructor. He won't have flown it "solo" or with fare paying passengers, ie public transport.

So has he done anything that isn't covered by his PPL?

Forgive me if I've got it wrong, but I've heard that he flew single pilot operational sorties with police observers and that he had never had a base check or whatever with an instructor on the EC135.

Please tell me that I have hearing trouble!

Someone said earlier he did his training and got through his Line Checks on the EC135 before doing operational flights. They wouldn't have just sent him off. :confused:

Seems to me this should have been discussed more thoroughly with the CAA. The prosecution (well deserved IMHO) should perhaps have been brought by them, not the CPS.

It appears the charges were incorrect, hence the not guilty verdict. Deception apart, it seems **** was knowingly operating outside of the privileges of his licence; all police flights of this nature are deemed to be public transport. Competent or not, he was not legally allowed to make PT flights as commander.

And presumably the Chief Pilot wants his ar$e kicking...(but he's certainly not the only one who could have been conned). Hopefully this won't EVER happen again. If there had been an accident......

Over here in NZ we have just had a guy get the CEO of a new Maori TV channel to be launched next year - except they found his MBA came straight off the net, his affiliation (supposedly a board member)with the British Columbia security board (the Canadian stock exchange) non-existant, his claimed sporting feats - all made up, etc. He pulled a £200K public job and then claims the CIA (or Canadian equivalent) changed his identity. The only honest facts about him was that he had twice been a bankrupt.

Now, if I get my Flight Sim 2000 out and print out the log book and the Airline Transport Licence think I can get a job!

Glad to see that other court systems are as screwed up as the U.S. . I work in a small unit as a pilot and before you can even get an interview with the unit you must present your medical, pilots license and log book. If anything looks suspicious they would pull your last two medical applications and check you flying hours. If you don't present these documents you don't even get the interview.

We have a set of procedures for pilots and observer selection and follow them to insure that all applicants meet the requirements. ;)

Feel bad for the Unit that let this happen. But I bet it will nevr happen again and alot of Police Agencies will be rechecking the applicants.

Skycop9

Mr Ree,

You say 'guilty (as admitted) client....', if a client admits his guilt a barrister cannot defend him upon a not guilty plea unless

(i) his admission does not in fact amount to the commission of the relevant offence in law ie "well I'm guilty because I did X but I did not intend Y" where Y is a necessary ingredient of the offence. or,

where

(ii) there is insufficient evidence upon which the client could be convicted of the offence charged.
In the latter case we can only put the prosecution to proof and not assert a positive case to try and prove innocence.

Actually we are a pretty honourable profession who largely stick to the rules - to be honest most of us don't believe that its worth being struck off by breaking the rules. I appreciate most people have an inate mistrust of lawyers and the question we are always asked is "how can you defend people you know are guilty?" The question nobody ever asks is "how can you prosecute people you know are innocent?".

If you really want to see how the legal system works why not come along and see, if you fancy swopping a jump seat ride for a day in court drop me a line.

Surely he didn't do an operational sortie solo, I had to go to Gatwick to get my licence endorsed with 135 before I even got near the aircraft single pilot.....

What was the final outcome of this, did the C.A.A. ever castrate Mr.Lamb ?

£350 an hour sounds good to me!!:suspect:

hard to beleve
 

thats is one hell of a story,
how can a guy take over a helicopter and fly it,
without all the checks been carried out,
ie, log book, type rating, licence,

hope they do better next time, lol

At the end of the day , you are dealing with the police (I am one) This chap came in talking the talk and apparently convincingly walking the walk and conned whoever it is that does recruitment . The police service is absolutely stackfull of idiots with rank on their shoulders who do just that that . They have little experience little ability and are invariably crap at their jobs , thus making the police service a laughing stock . Now if the police cannot root out pillochs in their own ranks how are they ever going to suss out that a chap claiming to hold licences to do something they have no idea about , actually doesnt . Our vetting depts for gods sake are a waste of time , Ive lost track of how many , football hooligans , disqualified drivers , ex prison inmates etc etc we have allowed into our ranks due to this ridiculous process . This comes as no surprise to me from the police side. I am quite surprised though that he managed to fox the pilots . You guys (Helis) all seem to know one another or have at least heard of each other. With the quals that this guy allegedly had I would have thought someone would have known him , but these people are sent to try us .
On a policey side of things FL does infer that the CID officers investigating might be getting an interview without coffee from the chief. In case like this the CID ,if indeed they dealt with it would have put all the evidence to the CPS who would have made the decision on which charge was appropriate not the Police . They would have then formulated their case on the evidence they had , which would probably have been very comprehensive . This is not the fault of the police but as per usual the CPS , prosecutions dont fail generally because of the police , as we dont prosecute the CPS do .
My last drink drive case that went to court was prosecuted by a very well paid gentleman who had months to prepare .He was faced with a very worthy adversary , a 24 year old solicitior with a years experience who got the file that morning , The laws an ass.
But at least we know that there are people like FL who can us pilot types if we should need it .
N.B any probationary police officer could have told you that defence to obtaining pecuniary advantage it aint rocket science :ugh::ugh:

This comes a couple of years after the last post on this thread, and I appreciate that. First a word about how I came by it.

Mark Lamb was a mate of mine, and he dissapeared off my radar a while back (around the time of the prosecution) so I was doing a google search this morning to see if I could track him down (I know he moved abroad a while back) and stumbled on tis. At first I thought it was a co-incidence seeing his name, but Mark Lamb, lives near Lutterworth, flies with EMASU, all fitted and sadly confirmed that the friend I thought was someone with considerable flying experience was not what he seemed.

Let me first defend him. Mark was, and if he is still flying I am sure continues to be, a skilled an competent pilot irrespective of whether his ability to fly a machine marries up with the qualifications I, and others, believed he held. In fact it was his ab ility to fly that made him "credible". I flew with him a number of times in an EC120 between Redhill and Kilworth Springs Golf Club (where he sometimes parked on a verge next to the club house), as well as in a Bell in and out of Denham (where he had some established contacts at HeliAir, including Q Smith the owner of the firm), and in R22/44 both in the UK and US (at Group 3 Aviation in LA, which he said he had a stake in and which at the time I had no reason to doubt, though obviously now I wonder). Mark was also a friend whenever I needed one, and so I can understand why people at the ASU would feel comfortable in his presence. In fact, on one occasion I drove up to the ASU for a coffee and a catch up (around 2001 IIRC) probably on one of the days he was on a training flight as he was kicking about in a flying suit.

I would hope that court case notwithstanding, that he manages to "rehabilitate" himself should he still be flying. I can see a defence that it was a bit of bragging that went too far. Mark was highly accomplished in the IT field having worked for a large city law firm and a number of other start ups and he certainly had earned considerable sums out of his skills. I can only summise that IT wasn't where is "heart" was, and what he wanted was to ingratiate himself in the world that he wanted to belong to. The fact is, he had the skills and aptitude certainly, and most likely the means as well to put himself through the training that would have given him the career he aspired to.

I feel let down in a sense, but he is/was my mate, so I also feel compelled to stand by him in the face of the criticisms he has had on this thread. The fact that many of those criticisms are mostly warranted in one form or another is not an easy thing to accept in someone I considered a mate, and I'd still stand by him no matter what, though I do also want to kick his backside for using me to add credibility to a personae that was clearly made up (though he isn't the worst offender: just ask anyone from the AAC around 10 years ago who knows the story of the fat "Idi Amin" lookalike that blagged his way onto a flying cse without doing Grading with a falsified logbook, got kicked off the course and went to SA and persuaded the SADF to lend him and his girlfriend a Bell which he then crash-landed in the desert when it ran out of fuel).

I'm sure raking his misdemeanours up 20 odd months after the last post on this subject is definitely going to help his rehabilitation into aviation society (if there is such a thing)!:rolleyes:

This may stir up a bit of a storm. But, if a guy with little experience manages to fly a twin helicopter(with no real training) well enough to pass a test. (Which I am sure is pretty dam hard) Does this not prove that there may be no real need to have all the ex mil experience every one seems to brag about on here.

Now I understand that from a safety point of view the more hours the better and the reasons behind that and i'm not for one second saying that should change.

Just thought I would open the question up for debate.

I flew a Tristar sim safely without ever handling a big jet, can I be a captain please???

I have a driving licence, two and four wheels; I've probably held it longer than most serving traffic policemen. I also have off-tarmac and on-tarmac competition experience. I have driven on motorways for many years.

I could argue that I should therefore be allowed to drive a big white traffic car with blues and twos on a pursuit, just like a traffic policeman. Without even showing them my driving licence.

The average reaction to that would be "Rubbish, what are you thinking?" I would agree, but it would actually be legal, unlike the unqualified muppet in question flying a police helicopter on a Public Transport flight.

As blatant a self-confession of ignorance and bigotry as anyone could ever make.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

On a lighter note....................

View Work - Writers Harbor


:rolleyes:

What guys will do.
 

A similar story from the USA. Quite some years ago, I was offered a job here flying a Hughes 500 E. Utility work. Maintaining power lines. I got a demo ride as a pax, and we put one skid on a pole, 100 feet above the ground. With the cables at least six inches from the bubble. No biggie. :bored: The two bods in the back calmly climbed out. :uhoh: My eyes fell out of my head. :mad: Anyway, I gratefully declined the offer, but the employer did tell me about an experience he had earlier. He had one guy claim 2,000 hours. Up they went, with candidate flying. The boss, simulating a worker, climbed out. Then the helicopter nearly crashed. Lost control, and the boss thought they were all going to 'flame out'. Once down, somehow, they were both shaking so much, they went to a bar. Over a beer, our 2,000 hour hero admitted he had just under two HUNDRED hours, and had pencil whipped just over 1,800 rotary flight hours.
What amazed him, and me, was not so much that a dude would falsify his log book. That's crazy, and opens a person to all sorts of criminal liability down the road. But what really amazes is that a fellow would follow up his gall by attempting such a serious, serious flight, knowing he had so little experience.

The problem most people seem to have overlooked here is the one of personal integrity. Effective captaincy requires prompt analytical skills and the ability to arrive at a logical and safe conclusion in a timely manner. If you can't decide whether to tell the truth or a complete fabrication at a preliminary and subsequent job interviews, there is a real chance you may struggle to make the right call on an marginal VFR decision or following a time critical emergency when airborne. The underlying causes of lying or fantasies are usually huge self-esteem issues wrestling with an inflated ego. Neither condition is conducive to the stable extrovert personality required of a safe pilot.

Any fool can demonstrate superb handling skills, it's the integrity and decision making that go with these that make the professional aviator.

kbf1

It would appear that life hasn't been kind to the chap you mentioned, despite the fact that he comes across as an extremely personable chap (when I met him at Shawbury).

Michael Page wins tribunal case with former employee | News | Recruiter

And if you know the reason why he left Shawbury, then this is just ironic:

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Politics Show | Midlands: In camera: your comments

And I'm intrigued as to why a Google search with "south africa" amongst the terms should bring up:

Aeros - Flight Training at Gloucestershire and Filton

SBW

This is an old case, and the chap got caught out. There are a few people that I know of, lets say that have been a little more engergetic in there log book and are/ still flying now for the police / hems units.
This kind of thing used to wind me up, when I was battling along year after year trying to gain experience. If the units do not physically check these guys credentials then its there own problem.
When I have guys apply, I start calling people to find out exactly there background and the time they were there.
It's a small industry and everyone is linked in with everyone along their career path.
fluffy

Sarboy:

The only reason he didn't get kicked out of the Factory was because he was a diversity poster-boy. HIs list of misdemeanours included:

1. Telling Gold Stick (the Maj Gen in charge of the Household Div) he wanted to join HCR after being ranked "bottom third" and expecting that he would get in by playing the race card. urban myth has it GS told him "we don't take people who have been back-coursed" and he subsequently found that he had been backed the following day (suspect though the truth is he was turned down just before being backed)

2. Got caught on a speed camera and tried to claim his car was in Germany at the time. When the case went to court and the police proved that it was his car (not a similar one on cloned plates as he claimed) he tried to get his girlfriend to state she was driving. She refused and he was prosecuted. he was about to be dismissed from the RSigs for conduct unbecoming, but got away with it because he claimed he was being victimised because of his race.

3. He was RTU'd from Boz after rocking up in a staff post wearing an RRF hackle behind his Sigs "Jimmy" claiming he had some reserved rights to wear it having served with them on attachment. He was given a media ops job and caused a near diplomatic incidient.

4. Rocked up at MW claiming huge numbers of RAF hours gained in a UAS that meant he would have been exempt grading. He got as far as Shawbury before he was found to be totally barking and unsafe in the air. Caused huge amounts of grief with AAC who had to clear whole mess up. Put on administrative leave pending dismissal when he went for his jolly to SA.

I'd heard more about him along the way. A total legend!

kbf1,

Haha, I'm well aware of the short comings of the chap in question..I merely stated that he is an extremely personable chap! But as a pilot, I dread to think that someone might take him on as a member of staff...

Hours in a B747/A320 between the UK and USA don't count in your logbook unless you're actually in the cockpit - being a pax down the back doesn't count. Oh, hang on, maybe I can add them as P2...

Oh, and having a single-barelled name automatically makes one less likely to achieve promotion. Obviously. So perhaps it'd be good to add a second barrel to improve one's promotion prospects...

Legend!

SBW

he's still conning people
 

This man is still conning people.Seems he has changed his interests from the Police service to the Ambulance Service.He is using people and ruining lives just as he has done so in the past,what do they say about leopards and spots?
Hopefully the NHS WILL do their checks and he shall this time get caught....:D

dumsruck,

As a new poster here, perhaps you should bear in mind that (probably fortunately) the NHS has little or nothing to do with running air ambulance (HEMS) operations. They are paid for in England and Wales by charities. Usually, the "operator" is an experienced helicopter company. The NHS provides the paramedics and the requests for tasking.

Do you want to provide any more detail?

Anybody out there know of Mr Lambs whereabouts as I have just seen thisthread and he also conned our company out of a lot of money with a total pack of lies.

Please PM me if you do

Interesting how a new ppruner finds this thread after its been dead for so long.... Could it be that your motives are perhaps commercial and you are using this forum for your own profit to score some points..... If this guy is indeed involved with the NHS now, I'm sure sufficient checks would have been done, although I hear that some private ambulance operators dont bother... There was a bad one down your way in Norwich wasnt there? Heard the guy that runs it is a right prat!

"sciolist"... Noun, archaic. "a person who pretends to be knowledgeable and well informed"

Do you know what,listening to you ,you could even be Mr Lamb himself.......
you seem to know a lot,yes he is a prat he didn't do the checks and gave Mr lamb a job,lucky that it didn't last but Lamb decided to ruin two more lives on the way, he has to be stopped!!!!!!

Net closing in on the fraudster
 

Looks like the police have this prat (aka Mark Lamb / Alan Chandler) in their sights again now for fraud, forgery (how appropriate given the 'copter story) and theft!

For those of you who mentioned in this thread that he owes you money, Lincolnshire Police Fraud department is only a call/email away! Alternately you can have the pleasure of saying 'hello' to him again at Grantham Magistrates Court on 9th February 2015.

Read the full details: Company Director charged with Fraud and Forgery Offences - Lincolnshire Police

Sarboy, Kbf1,

Idi Amin is alive in Dubai.......flying FW.

I sincerely hope I never get on an aircraft with him up front.