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-   -   Wollongong fatal crash March 2013 (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/510743-wollongong-fatal-crash-march-2013-a.html)

John Eacott 21st Mar 2013 02:11

Wollongong fatal crash March 2013
 
Sydney Morning Herald


Four people have been killed in a helicopter crash at Bulli Tops in Wollongong’s northern suburbs.
Police, paramedics and firefighters are heading to Panorama House where the helicopter crashed just after midday.
A NSW Ambulance spokesman would only say there were "multiple" fatalities, however Fairfax Media understands four people have died.
Panorama House is a function centre set on a cliff overlooking the Illawarra, and is a popular wedding location.

The chopper that crashed is believed to have been carrying a wedding party. One of those killed is believed to be a child.
The helicopter burst into flames when it crashed into a grassed clearing outside Panorama House, police said.
There are no survivors.
A crime scene has been set up at Panorama House and police have launched an investigation into the incident.
The Robinson R44 helicopter is registered to Bankstown Helicopters.
A spokeswoman at the company's headquarters said no one was immediately available for comment.
Bulli man Norm Upton was driving home from Sydney when he saw the helicopter engulfed in flames.

He told the Illawarra Mercury he was travelling south along Mount Ousley and saw the helicopter on its side.

‘‘I was about 200 yards away and I saw people running around,’’ he said.

‘‘It wasn’t exactly what I wanted to see on my way back.’’
Police said a report would be prepared for the coroner.
http://api.news.com.au/content/1.0/t...one&size=large

VH-XXX 21st Mar 2013 03:39

What an absolute shocker. Not part of a wedding party now being reported but either way it doesn't really matter does it.

Bladders I wonder?

VH-HWQ | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Private pilot, privately hired, clipped trees, flipped over and burnt. Apparently as reported.

mhale71 21st Mar 2013 04:55

Updates: No kid on board, Not part of wedding party.

Four dead in helicopter crash near Bulli Tops, south of Sydney | News.com.au

But still very tragic

John Eacott 21st Mar 2013 05:44

From News Ltd:


FOUR people have been killed in a helicopter crash south of Sydney just after midday today.
Police have confirmed four adults have been killed in a chopper crash at Bulli Tops, correcting earlier reports that a child was among those killed.
The helicopter crashed into a grassy clearing adjacent to Panorama House - a popular wedding and function centre located on the cliffs at Bulli Tops.
Acting Superintendent Tim Beattie said disaster victims experts will be brought in to identify the bodies in the burnt out wreck.
"It's an horrific scene...this helicopter appears to have collided heavily with the ground," Supt Beattie said.
The helicopter exploded into flames during the crash and was lying on its right side, facing east, with a tarpaulin covering the charred cabin.
The tail rotor blade and stabiliser became detached and were found lying next to the helicopter tail.

http://resources0.news.com.au/images...bulli-tops.jpg

The pilot and occupants were en route to Panorama House for lunch, when the accident happened at 12.12pm.
The crash happened in good flying conditions with clear skies and winds at about 10-15 knots.
Police said the four deceased people were not part of a wedding party, as previously reported.
They had flown from Bankstown Airport earlier today.
Investigators believe the helicopter clipped treetops, flipped over and exploded as it was coming into land in a clearing adjacent to Panorama House.
Witness Norm Upton was approaching Bulli Tops and noticed a plume of black smoke.
"I looked over and saw a helicopter on its side. It's fuselage was still intact but it was shouldering," Mr Upton said.
"Then I saw two men running towards it, and I knew straight away it must have been bad."

http://resources3.news.com.au/images...rama-house.jpg

Emergency services raced to the site of the crash at around midday.
The helicopter involved in the crash registered to Bankstown Helicopters.
The company's Chief Pilot William Miller confirmed the Robinson R44 VH-HWQ had been hired out to a private pilot who was conducting 'private operations'."
'At this time Bankstown Helicopters is unable to comment further as to the circumstances leading to the accident, or the condition of the occupants," he said in a written statement.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau says it has deployed a team of four investigators to the Bulli Tops crash scene to begin the on-site phase of its investigation.
A fatal crash on the south coast in February last year involving the same model of helicopter which claimed the lives of two men was also subject of an ATSB investigation.
In the wake of that inquiry the Bureau advised owners and operators of R44 helicopters to fit bladder-type fuel tanks saying there was a danger of fire from aluminium fuel tanks in the event of an accident.
A woman at the Cliffhanger Café at Bulli Tops said she was first alerted to the tragedy by the sounds of ambulance and emergency services sirens.
“We're about 500 metres away with a lot of trees in between…the first we knew was lots and lots of sirens going past," she said.
More to come.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images...rama-house.jpg

http://resources1.news.com.au/images...rama-house.jpg

MartinCh 21st Mar 2013 15:06

Very sad to hear of another "bladder tanks could have made difference" mishap. :(

Regardless of some gust, not the best choice of approach/direction, wrong wind assessment/LTE, pilot's experience or whatever combination led to this.

It's easy to make mistakes flying helicopters and most likely low time pilot getting some hours towards commercial or enough R44 PIC time for jobs later on.

How many more crashes like these, to have bladder tanks compulsory on all R44s worldwide, no exceptions, soon as? The rotor brake switch probably saved some lives, but... I thought ATSB, NTSB, AAIB etc are there to ensure improved safety based on accident investigations, yet we don't see much happening. Is it RHC's lobbying in place again?

Food for thought: http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_asset...awb/28/012.pdf

Dick Smith 21st Mar 2013 20:45

So surely by now someone must be able to tell us if a bladder was installed?

It's an important point.

Up-into-the-air 21st Mar 2013 20:55

casa and the effect on commercial operations
 
Here is the letter attached to the AWB. This does not have a completion date and why is there not an AD??


Canberra, Brisbane, Darwin, Cairns, Townsville, Tamworth, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth
Standards Division
File Ref: D13/36518
5 February 2013
Notice to all R44 Operators
Subject: Fuel Tanks - R44 helicopters, S/N 0001 thru 2064 and
R44 II helicopters, S/N 10001 thru 12890.
You may be aware of recent incidents and accidents involving Robinson R44 helicopters that, in some cases, have resulted in post-crash fires following helicopter rollover and/or low velocity impact events. The Type Certificate holder (manufacturer) is recommending the incorporation of a bladder fuel tank kit to improve the integrity of the tank after impact or rollover events. The manufacturer’s recommendation comes in the form of Service Bulletin (SB) 78B, which specifies the requirements for the installation of the modified fuel tanks, with a compliance date of April 2013.
Operators are reminded of their responsibility to ensure that aircraft are in a safe and airworthy state. This requires the operator to review manufacturer’s recommendations and associated data and, where appropriate, to incorporate those recommendations.
Civil Aviation Regulation (CAR) 42A (4) 1988 states the following;
(4) If a person has elected to use a manufacturer‘s maintenance schedule for an aircraft’s maintenance, all instructions issued by the manufacturer of components permanently, or from time to time, included in, or fitted to, the aircraft, being instructions for the continued airworthiness of the components, are to be taken to form part of the manufacturer’s maintenance schedule and election has effect accordingly.
At this time, CASA strongly recommends that all operators of R44 helicopters, which are subject to the Robinson SB (78B), incorporate the manufacturer’s modified bladder tanks at the earliest opportunity.
To enable CASA to determine the current and projected status of the R44 fleet, you are requested to advise CASA on the status of the fuel tank installation on your aircraft and whether the Service Bulletin modification has been installed. This can be achieved by completing the attached form and returning it by facsimile, mail or e-mail at the earliest opportunity. If you own multiple aircraft, it would be appreciated if a separate form for each aircraft is returned
Thank you for your consideration of this matter.
Yours sincerely
[ORIGINAL SIGNED BY]
Peter Boyd
Executive Manager
Standards Division
Civil Aviation Safety Authority
Even a time span on this would have been handy as most AD's have.

CYHeli 21st Mar 2013 21:21


Service Bulletin (SB) 78B, which specifies the requirements for the installation of the modified fuel tanks, with a compliance date of April 2013.
There is a date. The SB actually states end of April from memory.
As the above states, if an operator is using the RHC maintenance schedule, then the SB has all of the teeth it needs.
The original SB for this gave a complete by date of end of next year I believe and it keeps getting reduced by RHC. Under pressure of course.
I'm also not sure if an AD can be issued if a SB is in existence, better people on here can answer that one. It would be an ICAO thing, I'm sure.

as350nut 21st Mar 2013 21:41

Very sad and condolences to the familys, about a 22 min flight from Bankstown so possibly 160lts of fuel and four people. That's enough for a 44.
Bankstown helicopters are such a professional outfit I would be surprised if this aircraft under there ops( but owned by an other party) didn't have the tanks done. If they didn't that might be a worry, if they were done then that's a worry in that it didn't seem to help much. All considered there will be a lot of questions about this one.

Arrrj 21st Mar 2013 23:04

Dick,

I am advised that HWQ was not fitted with the new fuel bags, although apparently the machine was due to be fitted with these quite soon.

Regardless, it's a very sad situation for the heli community.

Arrrj

MartinCh 22nd Mar 2013 01:44

as350nut,
since every 'issue patch' to imperfections of design, manufacturing/parts material quality etc of RHC is financial/time burden of the owner/operator as it looks to me from various issues with blades delam/corrosion/fuel tanks etc, fitting the tanks is costly enough both purchase, downtime and labour to make it 'not sensible' from purely financial point of view without any bigger maintenance on the machine.

I'm not so familiar with Australia/CASA differences to FAA/USA, but the (incidentally) last year crash, also fairly survivable, ended up pretty much same, which 'prompted' the 1yr earlier deadline on R44s all having bladder tanks. I added the link after brief search just today for illustration to those who haven't followed it in the past.

Why wouldn't FAA, EASA or other agency/authority be able to issue AD? SBs are just CYA from RHC's side (pre-emptying the AD to avoid mass demand). Obviously not enough people die and tanks rupture during a crash/rollover. There is track record of survivable crashes with fires killing people, so in view of many, it meets the condition of 'known safety deficiency' as reason to issue AD.

Helicopter manufacturer knew of fatal design flaw, say US lawyers (Another quick search for the last year's crash. Make your own opinion)

Nigel Osborn 22nd Mar 2013 04:45

I was surprised this morning when the TV news said " it was pilot error but will be investigated". It may well be pilot error but I think it is unusual for a TV station to announce that so soon after the tragic accident.:confused:

catseye 22nd Mar 2013 05:34

TV coverage.
 
For all the offsite experts here's one of the better news stories. Just leave the sound off and consider the pictures.
4 adults killed in fiery NSW chopper crash - Yahoo!7


Another very sad day for the industry. :ugh:

cattletruck 22nd Mar 2013 12:34

Tragic accident indeed.

I have a 1937 autobiography by Jim Mollison where he describes that the first thing he did after acquiring any British made plane was change the overhead fuel tank from aluminium to tin. This was prompted after he witnessed a number of pilots survive a hard landing only to be burnt alive because the aluminium fuel tanks ruptured too easily when the flimsy landing gear on those airplanes of that era collapsed. This was back in the days before WWI

The proximity of an avgas fuel tank to passengers and to the engine on an R44 should at least require a secondary saftey system such as a fuel bags.

anti-talk 22nd Mar 2013 13:09

Bladder Tanks (R22????)
 
I think there is another salient point here, the R22 has a very similiar design, what do we think about Bladder tanks for the R22 (weight penalty/ range penalty).
The next question for RHC is if they expect an AD for the R44 is the design and testing process under way for the R22 as surely being a VERY similar design one may reasonably expect the 22 to be encompassed within the same AD.
There was an accident in Houston last year in an R22 that looked like a very hard low speed impact (Vortex Ring possibly) followed by a post crash fire that unfortunately killed both occupants (was it survivable without the fire I dont know).

Dick Sanford 22nd Mar 2013 13:54

Anti-talk. Yes, a bladder tank modification will be fitted to the R22. D

anti-talk 22nd Mar 2013 14:29

Interesting, any idea of when they will be available for the 22, surely that will coordinate with the AD coming active in the R44

Ian Corrigible 22nd Mar 2013 14:34

The R22 bladder tank will appear in production aircraft by mid-2013. No word yet on the retrofit schedule.

I/C

captpugwash 22nd Mar 2013 22:05

Its possible that even if the aircraft was fitted with the new tanks that this tragic accident would still have ended in disaster...

It looks like the aircraft hit trees and then fell to the ground...

The cause of the accident wasn't the fire, it was a result of the aircraft colliding with trees on approach.

A collision with trees at that height in any aircraft would be life threatening.

Up-into-the-air 22nd Mar 2013 23:10

R22-R44
 
I have been reading, since mid-2012 of issues with R22's and '44's after looking at the John Quadrio incident and reading all the AD's, SB's and accident reports.

LTE

The most common issue is LTE, yet there is no discussion of that here at all.

SITE

If you have had a look at the topograghy of the site, there is a 1000FT rise from sea level over a 2 NM distance, which causes severe updraughts at times, or where the wind is from the west, severe turbulaence. [I was "dumped" due to downdrafts on late final on RWY 08 some years ago] so am well aware of the fickle weather conditions in the area.

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/...psfd021abc.jpg



From the Panorama literature:


Boasting absolutely breathtaking views of the picture-perfect Illawarra coastline, Panorama House is perched high on top of the Illawarra Escarpment, 400 metres above sea level.

Question is: Was this another LTE incident, with the fuel tanks a secondary issue??

The following give the local AWB for the R22/44 and question is - Why is this not an AD??, given the ATSB report.

Files for operation of an R22/44 bear some reading:

R22/R44 Ops Info | Assistance to the Aviation Industry


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