Just the ticket..... You must have been taking the picture!

Beep beep:

Just woke up to the dulcet tones of Jim Fergusson on Radio Scotland....ah bless him :cool:

You have to admit, he's got a regular gig.

Glad everyone is OK, wonder what the cause is this time?

Is Jim Fergusson to blame this time ??

All three operators have suspended flights of 225s and L2s - time to sell your EADS shares?

Mods

Shouldn't this thread be renamed "chc Helicopter ditching 22/10/12" to differentiate from the other 225 ditching threads?

I

Does Jim Ferguson get paid. If so, I may have to learn to spout @£$& too! :E

I haven't seen any crew names yet. Have they been released? Only ask as I used to know some of the guys up there.

How many ditchings have we had on the North Sea this month?

It didn't have the month on it when I posted. sasless


But we do seem to have a plethora .

Well now.....I suppose it is time for HC to jump in here and tell us how superior the 225 is when compared to the 92.

In the past I posed the question re the design of the 225 MGB and whether there exists a design flaw that just does not pass muster. Have EC hung their Shoppo rouge on the wrong peg with this one?

SASless It floats better ... :rolleyes:
3 ditchings in 8 years since first introduction in 2004.

And Sikorsky will be welcome to join them because when you speak about MGB ...:bored:
.

We may call it now EC225 "Hydrocopter"

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...87515577_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...51580845_n.jpg

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:cool:

Floats work a treat in flat water don't they!

When it is flying, it is of course vastly superior to the S92. However, when it falls into the water (again), it is no better...

We don't yet know what happened, but if it is the same as the last one, that is going to be pretty embarrassing for EC.

I don't think there is a conceptual design flaw, but the devil is in the detail and there was certainly a detail problem with the Bond ditching, and maybe there is still a detail problem lurking there (we won't know until we get more info). The only thing I can say is that detail problems are relatively easy to fix, fundamental design problems such as no attempt to permit flight after total loss of oil, are much harder to fix.

I know what you are getting at but the main shaft fracturing isn't a detail problem, I would suggest it's more than a small detail. The Emergency Lube giving an indication of malfunction even though it hadn't may have been a blessing when you consider the shaft was left unsupported in the MGB. Another 30mins in this state could have caused a little more than a "detail problem".

Yep, it might have been a different story in Sea State 6. EC have actually stated that they are very pleased with the performance of their floats. Tested in the Mediterranean...

"the shaft was left unsupported in the MGB". Correct me if I'm wrong (I usually am) but the schematic of the gearbox and bevel gear at the bottom of the shaft to engage with the oil pumps, in no way indicates that the loss of the bevel gear would leave the shaft unsupported. The weld holding the bevel gear to the shaft fractured and the gear dropped off the shaft. Shaft continued turning, fully supported by its bearings.

With any luck the latest ditching isn't due to the same cause, but due to loss of oil from somewhere else like a failed engine input seal. Hope it's nothing worse because I fly these truly delightful machines every working day from Aberdeen.

What I was driving at was that there was a shaft (bevel gear drive shaft) in the MGB that was no longer connected and the exact position of the bearing supports isn't present on the schematic. It had failed below the bevel gear (the bevel gear was still connected to the shaft above the failure thank goodness) and in dropping, the lower part of the shaft had damaged one of the roller bearings and the gear teeth of the pumps. However, you are quite right that this may not have caused a further failure as all the debris was no longer being circulated by the oil. I just don't like the thought that the shaft that drives the whole thing had even the slightest potential to fail without other cause and we are then in the realms of experimental engineering. EC obviously have used this technique when it comes to the design and test of the Emergency Lube system as it was never fitted to a complete system before entering service.

I fly 'em as well but not every working day...

If you bear in mind that the design of shaft has run for millions of flight hours in the 332L, L2 and 225 without problem (up until last year), then the concept must be OK. Some detail changed in the manufacturing process recently (different surface treatments etc) and that precipitated the problem for the Bond ditching. (Whether or not for this one, we don't yet know.). So I would say that since a small detail change caused the problem - albeit a pretty catastrophic problem - it is a small detail change to fix it.

HC, I totally agree, let's hope that they DID fix it. Let's also hope that they properly test any other new systems or detail changes as I never wanted to be a test pilot. If this was a fixed wing from one of the major manufacturers then I think it would be making a bit more impact. These aircraft aren't exactly cheap!

Nice pics shetlander. Are you promoting it as a floating resort location?



Where do we go now?
- Super Puma gearbox: black mark
- S-92 gearbox: black mark


Anyone for S-61T?

Cyclic - given you fly them surely the process of finding out what went wrong is a little more structured than "hoping" they fixed the problem??

Not the epitome of program perfection either. Four years after the program was first announced we're still waiting for the first Triton to be delivered; the 15 or so shipped to date have all been refurb'd analog S-61Ns.

Shetlander: Well done in getting these photos to the thread, much appreciated! :ok:

Playing around with Shetlander's 2nd photograph in Photoshop uncovers a rather large soot / oil mark extending from the left hand engine to the tail rotor.

When I read S5/2012 the other day I was quite surprised to read that.

One would expect there to be validation and review stages in the design control system that would have led them down a different path.

@Moodyman:
As is quite normal for these machines, especially 225s after a day's flying. Very smoky.

On its way to Peterhead on board a supply ship.

The engines do burn a lot of oil normally- the air oil separator is not very efficient so oil mist tends to find its way into the exhaust area, where it is cooked sufficiently to make it a black mess - but not sufficiently to burn it off.

The latest engine mod state has an improved separator and so a cleaner exhaust, but this is by no means implemented in the whole N Sea fleet.

Olympics zeus
 

Olympic Shipping*

Due in Peterhead at 03.30

Wonder how much it cost to spot charter that vessel - or can they claim salvage rights (or ransom) on the helicopter ? :)

Great end result of course but Just wondered why lossie SAR and a bond jigsaw attended,where was Shetland coastguard?? Surely they were closer

Normally Puma`s migrate to Dutch beaches this time of year, give or take a month..............

Bond 2 are practically next door to the Sumburgh Coastguard, so no distance advantage there and they were on a tasking at the time.

Offshorebear :

£65k a day for the vessel according to Westshore Shipbrokers AS - A leading Offshore Shipbroker in Norway. | Home

"Shetland Coastguard’s own search and rescue 102 was on a medevac to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary when the call came in."

See data from AIS shown in my post on page 2.

HC, what a shame you have become a Rotorhead's character that is pilloried in public like Shell Management.
Perhaps it is even sadder that you don't realise it is happening. Your response was so very predicable, despite your undoubted ability to provide a more reasoned and balanced one.
The EC225 is just a machine - with flaws and weaknesses like any other machine. A small cabin, a totally inadequate luggage bay, an in service reliability rate that is embarrassing, and a DOC that is not competitive. Oh - it also has seems to have an affinity to lying on it's side as well as to water.
However it is a good machine from the pilot's perspective - shame the customers get such a poor product!
A "Super Puma" that has genuinely reached the end of it's useful life and perhaps isn't so "Super" any more?