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-   -   AS350 Crash caught live on TV, Auckland, NZ (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/469810-as350-crash-caught-live-tv-auckland-nz.html)

RMK 28th Dec 2011 14:18

I have no training in sling-loading, but isn’t a 30m line too short for lifting/landing something 25m high?

I’m a PPL and have never even read an article on how to sling load, but the diagram would tell me to use at least 50-60m of line. Is there a procedure or rule of thumb for line length (metal cable or synthetic line)?

tistisnot 28th Dec 2011 14:30

Sorry, cannot resist!
 
Don't quibble with Gribble.

Gribble's quibble with Squirrel.

Always wanted to be a journo! OK, I know, don't give up the day job ..... :rolleyes:

SilsoeSid 28th Dec 2011 16:53


Rigger experience approx 1500 sling loads various machines. approx 2000hrs working with helicopters as loader driver and rigging installations.
...and an earthing strop nowhere to be seen !
:eek:

ShyTorque 28th Dec 2011 17:48

If both the load and the strop were made of metal, an earthing strop might have been unnecessary once the load touched the ground.

SASless 28th Dec 2011 18:07

Riggers make wonderful grounding straps....might make their hair stand up sometimes...but it is an electrifying experience!:E

SilsoeSid 28th Dec 2011 19:09


If both the load and the strop were made of metal, an earthing strop might have been unnecessary once the load touched the ground.
Just 2 things;
1. Were you on the same course or his instructor?
2. Have you seen the video? (see post 70)


See the rigger jump up grabbing the wire at 3:36.

ShyTorque 28th Dec 2011 21:19

Of course I've seen the video, a number of them from different angles. The pilot was extremely lucky to escape. Seems to me that the main strop ended up in the main rotor after the load was probably already earthed by ground contact. It also appears that a longer strop might have prevented the problem.

I don't actually understand your point about the earthing strop or why you're asking about my personal USL experience.

No I wasn't on the same USL course as this pilot. My instruction predates the pilot's experience by about fifteen years and was given by the RAF. We flew quite a lot of varied USLs on the squadrons in days gone by. I latterly also used to instruct USLs on an RAF SH OCU and flew JATE USL trials on a number of occasions.

And you? ;)

SilsoeSid 29th Dec 2011 00:21

Mmmm, I think you missed the point of this one ShyT.

I am referring to the visual evidence on the video that shows the experienced rigger jumping up to grab hold of the wire, just before he yanks it into the blades. Now then, by virtue of the fact that he has to jump up to catch the wire and then gravity taking over returning him to Earth, his body is the 'earthing' which the aircraft/load would need.

I can see what you mean if you are saying that there would be no earthing problem as the ac is attached to the line which is attached to the mast, which is bolted to the ground. However I would ask, how electrically earthed are all those 'joints'. I would say that even with modern ac static dischargers, the potential for a substantial static build up in all those elements of the job is fairly large.

All I am saying is that for a very experienced rigger in this field not to be using an earthing strop/lead/hook may not have been 'best practise'.


And you? ;)
As for experience, there was no personal element to my post, but if you're going that way, and as you ask, my experience with USLs began in 1981 and varies from ground handling to piloting experiences with a variety of aircraft such Scout/Gazelle/Lynx/Wessex/Puma/Sea King and Chinook, in a variety of theatres including Germany to the Falklands and NI to Hong Kong/Brunei.

Oh, and then there was the time not too long ago when the downlink aerial wouldn't raise on our return to base one day...that could have been funny if we kept quiet :E

ShyTorque 29th Dec 2011 15:27


As for experience, there was no personal element to my post
Eh? But you just asked me if I was on the same course as the pilot involved, or if I was his instructor! Seeing as he just rolled it completely into a ball, I took it as fairly personal.

Obviously crossed purposes here, Sid? I dunno.

USLs in my experience were earthed by an earthing "crook" kept by the ground handler himself, for use as he saw fit. All metal loads on steel strops generally earth themselves as they touch the ground, which was the point of my initial response. I can't, for the life of me, understand why the ground handler in this incident did what he did there, though!

SASless 29th Dec 2011 15:35

Dollar to a Dog Dropping...and you can hold the stakes in your mouth.....the Rigger thought the cable had hung up after being released and he was just going to pull the thing off the hook. :ouch:

He probably never tweaked to the ramifications of his actions....that being the pulling the once slack line taut (and still hooked firmly to the cargo hook) and into the rotor blades.:uhoh:

The rest as they say....is history!:oh:

No one got hurt....some great video was had....and PPrune got a great thread for our enjoyment....tis an ill wind that blows no good!;)

EBCAU 29th Dec 2011 21:24

No point squabbling about earth straps really. As previously posted, it was a Spectra line so no conducting capability that I am aware of.
However, risk of thread creep aside, I started my career under helicopters attaching loads. Static electricity was just something that you took as part of the job, and the same for the countless loadies that have worked under me since. Never have I used, or seen any other pilot use, an earthing strap.
Does that make me some sort of dangerous operator? Is the static electricity so great under some machines, large ones I'm guessing, as to be a hazard rather than just a discomfort? My personal experience only goes up as far as 3500kg AUW.

SilsoeSid 29th Dec 2011 21:47

Seems crossed purposes ShyTq :O



Anyway, each to their own practises, cue the Benny Hill music :ok:



hillberg 29th Dec 2011 23:18

No grounding wond required with this accident the load was on the ground (tower frame):ok:, If wire rope is used and a path for static electricty is the rigger let the new guy go first.:}
If the line is spectra or kevlar no shock.:eek:
belly hook ,longline to a strop, or a sling with a load.
A grounding wond for static control.:D
Spent a few years at it. lots of fun:ugh:

mickjoebill 30th Dec 2011 00:29

Front Seats
 
Anyone have a bright idea to improve the crashworthiness of the front seats?

Im told strengthening floor is required to replace the fiberglass tubs with the new design. Combined cost of strengthening and the new seat is prohibitive for most operators. US$30k?

So, is there an intermediate measure where the existing seat can be more securely fixed to the airframe?

I've heard reports that either the seat itself snaps or that the fixings can fail.

Perhaps both can be strengthened as lower cost minor mods without the need for reinforcing the floor?

Mickjoebill

SilsoeSid 30th Dec 2011 09:34

How about;
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades. :ok:

hillberg 30th Dec 2011 19:18

The rigger suffered no shock:=,The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock.:ok:

ShyTorque 30th Dec 2011 21:16

I would think he suffered slightly delayed shock, and not of the static electric type.

topendtorque 30th Dec 2011 21:22


How about;
Guy jumps up to guide wire, Earths himself when he lands, arm goes into spasm due to static shock, flicking cable into blades. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif
I'm with you Sid, especially when one takes into consideration the size of the boots that those rigger blokes wear. The lightweight arm would have to swing much more wildly than the heavyweight foot.

SilsoeSid 30th Dec 2011 22:26


The rigger suffered no shock,:=The Tower was on the ground, The cable was attached to the tower,The helicopter was attached to the cable:ie Grounded-The rigger suffered from a brain fert-not an electrical static shock. :ok:
So as long as the tower is on the ground, it is earthed? :ugh:




The rigger suffered no shock:=
I would think he suffered slightly delayed shock, and not of the static electric type.
Love it ShTq :D



Have a good New Year folks, and for those of us on duty tomorrow night, sodas all round :)

AnFI 1st Jan 2012 12:52

Broken seat...
 
... an ironic aspect of the (inadequate) seat structure failing is that the latteral accelerations were not transmitted to the pilot - which might have broken his neck. (Although the gearbox mounts breaking might also have achieved the same)


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