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Alan Mann Helicopters (Nostalgia thread)
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One of the discoveries we have made in developing the Ferranti tribute site (and I shall be the first to admit that this is a discovery which is startlingly obvious) is that the longer one leaves such endeavours - the harder it gets. While I have someone collating material and liaising with the web designers it isn't going to be too much of a stretch for me to incorporate some additional information to be hosted on this site and, in this regard, I would like to obtain as much information as possible (documents, photos and stories) relating to Alan Mann Helicopters. Regarding AMH I have noticed from my enquiries so far that there is, among some, a lack of imperative towards preserving this information and I have wondered whether this is felt because AMH are still running? The trouble is there is precious little by way of open source material (as indeed was the case with Ferranti) and those with all the memories of AMH's golden years are becoming increasingly difficult to track down. Some of course have already departed. There is a story to tell involving old man Mann's departure into aviation, Mann's award of the Agusta distributorship and their dealings with numerous clients. It is an interesting often colourful story and one which I am sure some shall enjoy reading. Anyone with information relating to Alan Mann between 1960-1980 please PM me. I would be most grateful. Someone such as the 'Savage' would have been an extremely useful source of information. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__...U/AM%20206.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__...20Slade%29.jpg S. |
Here's a start... the full list of the new 109s they supplied while they had that role with the registration it was delivered with to the customer
109A 7170 G-OAMH Willowbrook International, Op by Alan Mann Helicopters 7173 G-HWBK Willowbrook International, Op by Alan Mann Helicopters 7174 G-HELY Barratt Developments 7187 G-UPVC Anglian Double Glazing 7213 G-WEST Westland Helicopters 109A MK.II 7244 ZE412 Army Air Corps 7245 ZE413 Army Air Corps 7265 G-EJCB J C Bamford Excavators 7272 G-GBCA British Car Auctions 7307 N109AB John Laing Construction 7347 G-HBCA British Car Auctions 7393 G-OTSL Therm-a-Stor Double Glazing 7410 VR-BKQ USAL 7411 G-BOLA Laura Ashley Group 7412 G-VJCB J C Bamford Excavators 7437 G-PJCB J C Bamford Excavators 109C 7643 G-LAXO Glaxo Pharmaceuticals |
Addition
Though not a new delivery, it would be appropriate to record
A109AM S/N 7138 as ZE 411 to Army Air Corps A109AM S/N 7144 as ZE 410 to Army Air Corps (both ex-Falklands, 1982) ~ VFR |
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Helihub that is most helpful - thanks. I wouldn't mind getting the inside track on the musings which went on with the AAC post-Falklands as it would make a great intro to the sale of units 44 & 45. From what I understand it went something like this: Maj Smith: Brigadier Bottomsley, I just wanted to say that me and the lads have been thrashing about in these Agustas for the past couple of days and, well, not to put too fine a point on it but .. they ain't half bad! BB: What! Are you sure Smith? These contraptions are used by the Argies you know, some sort of relative of their home grown Pucara or something. Maj Smith: Well, actually sir, they are made in Italy. BB: Good grief, that's almost as bad isn't it? MS: Thing is sir, these Agustas are actually doing a good job and the boys in Hereford are telling us they'd like to run some special ops training exercises with them. BB: Good Lord Smith watch what you are saying there. Why on earth would the SAS want to have a go in these Pucara contraptions? MS: Sir, the Agustas are actually a bit quicker than the Scout and could be useful in making expeditious insertions and in facilitating rapid responses. BB: Oh very well Smith. But look here don't muck about with these captured units. Order up a couple from the manufacturer and let's see how these things fly when they're new and properly maintained. I'm not sure however how the MoD are going to like us putting in a request to procure equipment out of Buenos Aires! MS: Sir, the helicopters are manufactured in Frosinone just outside Rome, in Italy and they have a rep in Surrey, Alan Mann Helicopters. BB: Manfred Mann! What are you talking about Smith? Now get on with it and let me know when you've finished testing these Pucaras. MS: Yes sir. :sad: S. |
Savoia,
If you were to ply VFR440 and myself with alcohol on an industrial scale, we could make your hair curl with stories of goings on at AMH from the mid 70's to the 90's or whenever VFR rowed away. The really good times, the bad times and the occasonal awful times - we were there. Gin for me...... can supply my own containers. |
Savoia
One reason behind the order for the second pair was that the first two were no good for hot-and-high work, and the purchased pair were ordered with some kit which allowed that sort of operational environment. At least one got painted up in desert pink and sent out in a Kuwait direction. Hmm, how many kilos of sand were inside when it came back..? |
A109s, AMH and red wine for me!
Oh good, subsidised drinking - I like that idea :D Half-way decent Italian red (it has to be doesn't it!); Vino Nobile or perhaps a good Montepulciano flowing through my veins whilst TRC and I reminisce. You will be well placed, Savoia, to procure same - does one automatically gain 'sconto' when buying by the case?
I was taught such delights by the Tech Rep, Conforti (Agusta expense account :ooh:) and, for TRC, no, his father-in-law is still with us at the age of 92 and Giancarlo STILL hasn't inherited the vineyard and winery down in Tuscany!! Very frustrating - for all. Helihub LOTS of sand ;) and everywhere, but on the contrary the sand filters that were purchased were never used in anger. They added weight and minor restriction to airflow and then bleed air to exhaust the debris so were a power loss limitation too far. We never asked what TOTs were achieved - just changed the hot sections on a regular basis (those very shiny and irregularly shaped compressor blades!!) Better zip up or the Mods will remove these musings :( ~ VFR |
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TRC: What an excellent idea - bravo! I shall PM you and VFR prior to my next visit and we can agree a location from where we might imbibe and reminisce! VFR: 'Sconto quantità' doesn't automatically apply unless of course one buys considerable amounts. However, I have found that if one is well acquainted with the vineyard owner's daughter that access to selected stocks (the better wines) is made considerably easier! Vino Nobile; not bad and there are now several respectable Montepulciano's chief among which (in my view) are those produced by Emidio Pepe's vineyard in Abruzzo and who creates a Montepulciano d’Abruzzo which is probably the best in Italy! (I shall bring some examples for you to appraise). If you truly appreciate 'Vino d'Italia' and if you enjoy unique flavours then look out for 'Barbaresco' and I have to say that I have been a 'Chianti' fanatic all my life. As a young boy, when I would visit my father on the outskirts of Milano during term breaks from boarding school in the UK, he would always serve me with Chianti mixed with water and from where I acquired the taste. As an accompaniment to duck I think it is unbeatable and I have found that with my favourite British dish (pheasant) a Chianti from the Colli Fiorentini region is a match made in heaven! Salute S. |
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/__...rough%2086.jpg
Agusta 109A G-WEST joins the Farnborough flight line on 5th September 1986 |
Savoia, I'm curious as to why there should or needs to be a tribute to AM???
Whats so special about them that they need to be preserved in history? |
Whats so special about them that they need to be preserved in history? (good question though) |
G-TALY started off what turned out to be one of the most enjoyable threads on Rotorheads.
You never know, Alan Mann might bring out similar interesting stories from those involved. I for one enjoy reading about UK machines from the past. For that reason alone I would say keep the AM tales and photos coming ! Tarman |
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TC: I felt the same way when I was invited by a school friend to stay at his home over an exeat weekend and was shown his father's collection of beer mats. But here's the thing. The site we are developing which will record AMH's history .. you don't have to visit it. For those who are interested; AMH were at the sharp end of UK civil helicopter sales for well over a decade. Initially, Agusta versions of the 206 far outstripped Bell models during which time AMH made significant inroads with individuals and organisations whose helicopter operations would lay the foundations upon which much of the UK's corporate and charter business would be built. Along the way many fascinating encounters were created through the interplay between owners, operators and the AMH staff and that is what we intend to record. S. |
..... the interplay between owners, operators and the AMH staff.... |
Along the way many fascinating encounters were created through the interplay between owners, operators and the AMH staff and that is what we intend to record |
"Interplay"
No there really was! Some of them, well many of them, were gentlemen; some were just bloody impossible! I speak with feeling (and the need to drop in to my 'swerve-left' on the way home for some 'relaxing fluid' served by the pint) That's not wine, S, I wish.....but UK driving laws and all that......
We had some fantastic times on occasion (TRC in Klagenfurt, turbine doing the rural route of Austria via Stuttgart, for instance) AND, BTW, noting the reactions of the late Giles Villeneuve as an F1 driver, when he fired up a 206 with the throttle open - and cut it before things got exciting. And then apologised in both French and English; something about 'Sacre bleu, zis damned Italian machine - like the Ferrari - very unpredictable!' :oh: I'm very much looking forward to the (drunken) reminiscing session with TRC, as promised by Savioa :D _ |
I am always up for some history. Crack on lads.
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Wasn't it an AM machine that nearly got the British GP cancelled at Brands Hatch in either 76 or 78?
I recall the total power cut about 30 mins before the GP start time, caused by a helicopter hover-taxiing to the bowser and cutting through an overhead power line. Nobody knew what was happening for ages because even the PA system went off. Mike Barratt where are you? |
I think the offending "cable cutter" was a Whirlwind Series 3 from Redhill in 78 - but I am probably wrong. Or was that another time? UG
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I get it now, thanks.
You're a spotter right? |
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Lol! I've been called worse! Not wanting to disappoint .. the latest offering from Helihub's list: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/__...uly%201981.jpg Barratt Developments Agusta 109A at Battersea on 15th July 1981 S. |
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G-UPVC
Aaah, the unlovely G-UPVC. :oh: The paint scheme was SO objectionable to the Agusta paint team that it took 3 factory visits, and several long-lunches to actually achieve the brilliant orange. Much discussion on this !!! :O My sales team ducked the aggro (fancy that) by going off with the Agusta sales team for mutual back-slapping and congratulations, leaving me in the firing line with the technical boys............... Some things never change.
When we got it back to Fairoaks it went throught the C of A validation, customising etc, flight testing and tart-up for delivery. TRC will remember the next part of this ver well. On the special day all of the Anglian windows hierarchy arrived for acceptance, including the chairman. As Ch Eng I failed (abysmally) to check the internal of the rear cabin, and particularly the double-glazed rear door windows. Someone, in an attempt at silliness and levity, had affixed a small Dymo label to each window inscribed "Double-glazing by Everest". :uhoh: Anglian CEO called our CEO (no sense of humour some chaps). I received a royal-interview. Again. := Bit like Klagenfurt really. Are you reading this S?? I'll be down at the local pub if anyone wants me.....VFR |
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HH: Well done! One sees that GEEVS is wearing the same colours as when she was OTSL below: https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__.../G-OTSL001.jpg I'm not entirely certain who 'TSL' were. I believe Mann's had a couple of 109's which wore the 'jack' somewhere on their frame. Car Auctions may have been another. One see's that VFR installed curtains on TSL/GEEVS - the rear pax view is bad enough in the 109 without curtains but .. there we are! Someone, in an attempt at silliness and levity, had affixed a small Dymo label to each window inscribed "Double-glazing by Everest". Of course Mann's must have sold Anglian their first craft, G-WILL (never did discover why she was so named) an AB 206B III which was delivered in May '79 and sold on to Switzerland in February of '83. https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__...ary%201981.jpg AgustaBell 206B JetRanger III G-WILL at Battersea on 5th February 1981 S. |
S
I don't know who TSL were either, but I'll bet next week's paycheque that TRC does! He hasn't responded so probably away somewhere.....working? that'd be something LOL Yes, Mann's sold G-WILL to Anglian, it was so namedd in honour of the then then Chairman George WILLiams. (UPVC of course refers to the window construction that Anglian pioneered in the early '80s). So now we all know. TRC where are you? - VFR |
TSL was Therma-Stor Ltd, a(nother!) double glazing company, this time in Peterborough. Owner lived in Elstead, Surrey and there was a regular weekday run leaving Fairoaks to arrive Elstead on the dot of 8am to take the boss to the office in Peterborough and return route in the evening. The pilot spent most of each day in a nearby gym, I recall!
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G-OTSL
found this snippet from 1987 about OTSL delivery, an A129?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wiganairways/5512331454/ http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/...336b54b6_z.jpg WA |
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Wigan: Great Stuff! I think I may have stumbled upon 'another' article which addresses TSL's identity issue! ;) S. https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/__...00/129%20c.png |
A 129
Savoia, Grand Article,
I think you would sell more double glazing with the A129 than the A109http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/thumbs.gif WA |
Hello Savoia............!
Victor Frank Reginald here ! And just love the spoof article, loadsa laughs :D Thank you for taking the time to (mis) quote me in such an erudite manner (I really didn't know all those facts about the Mangusta :() - VFR
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https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/__...AII%20FILM.jpg
Rotorhead Zishelix kindly posted this image on the Nostalgia thread but, I'm keen to discover Mann's thinking behind the acquisition of this craft as an 'Alo II' seems like an interesting departure from their normal run of 109's and 206's. Great though to see the 'am' letters (and the Jack) on the nose! Sav |
AMH bought the Al II exclusively for film work. Aerial Camera Systems - the late Peter Allwork - had recently moved to Fairoaks and it looked like there would be a fair bit of film work coming in.
The Al II was chosen for a number of reasons - large flat floor, large door opening, it could fly as fast sideways as it could forwards - and there were several approved mods for various camera installations in existence. I spent many a happy day with FILM bodging it up on locations around the place - P2 air switch intermittent so starting the engine with a paper clip, bleeding the oleos before first flight every day, regularly removing the m/r dampers to self-bleed overnight, etc.... One memorable occasion was at Butlers Wharf on the Thames during filming for 'The Professionals' (:eek:). One of the m/r dampers had lost most of its oil on the previous 10 minute sortie (it happened from time to time, never worked out where it went - no sign of oil anywhere on the blades, etc). I got someone to get me a syringe or something to nick some oil out of the hyd reservoir as a get-you-home fix. He came back having visited the local chemist shop with an enema pump thing which worked a treat. All of the above snags were permanently fixed prior to going to Yugoslavia for the film mentioned above, and it ran like a sewing machine. We were often told that it was the smoothest Al II that anyone had ever flown in. .... (and the Jack) on the nose |
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Peter Allwork - Good Lord! Now there's a name I've not heard in almost 30 years! .. it could fly as fast sideways as it could forwards .. .. left Fairoaks by road for Yug. While on Alo II's and filming. The event which led to the demise of John Crewdson (am not familiar with the a/c reg) was (as far as I recall) attributed to the wrong grease being pumped into the main rotor - was that in fact the case? Sav |
... the wrong grease being pumped into the main rotor Economic I'm sure but what a shame to miss out on what could have been a decent ferry flight |
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Having trawled the list of early UK Alo's was able to identify Crewdson's ship as G-AWAP. A summary of the accident report reads: "The report concludes that the accident was caused by the disengagement of the main rotor head retention bolt, with consequent detachment of the rotor, due to corrosion of the engaging threads between it and the mast. Contributory factors were the application of a different aeronautical grease from the one specified for use during assembly of the rotor head, the presence of a sulphate contaminant from an unknown source, the omission of a main rotor head inspection which had become due 207 hours prior to the accident, low aircraft utilisation which resulted in long periods of time between successive inspections and an extension of the overhaul period of the main rotor mast assembly." Pages 5-8 of the report offer a more detailed account of the various anomalies. Sav |
Standing by to be corrected, but I think it was the wrong anti-seize compound/thread lubricant applied to the m/r hub nut threads. I think it reacted with the xmsn oil vapour and attacked the threads causing them to fail. Taken from griffin-helicopters: The helicopter was engaged in filming work & the wreckage was found on 23 May. The A/C was in transit from Grobnik A/D to a private landing site at O'Malley's field near Boljun. The A/C appears to have struck three lowest wires of a 6-wire telephone system strung between poles on either side of a valley. One of the wires was found to be wrapped around the rotor head. The helicopter impacted with a rocky outcrop & came to rest on the valley floor. The wires would not have been visible against a dark backgrond. CAA closure: See YUGOSLAV CAA accident report dated BELGRADE JUNE 82. NO FURTHER CAA ACTION. |
elro
I think you've got your wires crossed.
The hub nut problem that I referred to was in answer to Savoia's question in post 33. I was very closely associated with G-FILM's accident (almost too closely) having been replaced by Andy Anderson, who died in the accident, only the day before. |
TRC and elro
Of the very sad event, I recall only that the route normally followed to location was changed and the fatal wires were not marked on any map, neither did they have any polystyrene balls or similar strung on them.
As a closure, which I shall remember until it is my turn to go upstairs (or down), whilst TRC did an excellent job at the time he wasn't licensed on the AlII. Andy and I were. Both of us also held licences on the A109. We had this fabulous film job on one hand, and the Pope's visit on the other.(with both our operational A109s G-HWBK and G-OAMH flying aerial photos; one for BBC, the other for ITV - now THAT's a win-win situation, and I think it was Nigel who masterminded that deal :ok:) In the event Andy and I tossed a coin for who was to go to Yug, and who would do the Pope's visit. I didn't win, despite extensive AlII experience gained in Canada previously. I've often wondered, if the coin had landed the other way up............................. It was one of the saddest moments that I can recall; we have all lost good friends and colleagues over the years. This, for me, was about the most poignant. And only goes to show that the day may be called, but the number on the bullet wasn't yours. RIP fellas, I miss you still ~ VFR |
G-FILM with NPT at the controls with a Continental camera mount installed, and a forward-looking camera through an aperture in the the co-pilot's footwell. Yugoslavia 1982.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...o1/FILM001.jpg and with a Stampe mock-up cockpit - in which I made a flight.. Looks like the late PM in the pilot's seat. http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j212/teeo1/FILM.jpg |
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Great stuff TRC! :ok: You preempted my query regarding the square 'hole' in the lower perspex and which, I had guessed, was for the purpose you mentioned. Can you recall any other major film productions G-FILM was involved in? Brgds Sav |
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